HC Deb 08 November 1999 vol 337 cc769-74

.—(1) Subject to subsection (2) below, Transport for London may provide or secure the provision of such amenities and facilities as it considers would benefit persons using any waterway.

(2) Before commencing any works for the purposes of exercising the powers under subsection (1) above, Transport for London shall—

  1. (a) comply with any requirement in an enactment to obtain a licence or consent in respect of the works, or
  2. (b) if there is no such requirement, obtain the consent to the works of any person who is under a duty to maintain the waterway to which they relate.")

Mr. Hill

I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

With this it will be convenient to take Lords amendments Nos. 355, 356 and 697.

Mr. Hill

This group of amendments deals with rivers and waterways. Lords amendment No. 354 gives Transport for London power to provide amenities and facilities on the Thames and other waterways in London. Lords amendment No. 355 transfers responsibility for the operation of the Woolwich ferry. Lords amendment No. 356 ensures that there is no doubt about the validity of transfers of property, rights and liabilities that are transferred to London Regional Transport between 31 March 1999 and the coming into force of this clause, or that are subject to transfer agreements made during that period. Lords amendment No. 697 provides Transport for London with a power to make byelaws about piers that it owns or operates.

There was considerable debate in another place on some of the amendments in this group. In the light of concerns expressed by the Port of London authority and British Waterways, the clauses were further amended in another place. Therefore, Lords amendment No. 354 clarifies that Transport for London must obtain any necessary consents or licences before commencing works on waterway amenities or facilities, and Lords amendment No. 697 ensures that TfL byelaws for landing places do not conflict or interfere with certain byelaws made by the Port of London authority.

Tourism and the river have been a subject of concern to Members in both Houses. The Government, of course, recognise the importance of tourism to river services. However, we have taken note of the concerns that have been expressed by hon. Members in this and the other place on behalf of a particular operator.

The Government's proposals for the mayor and TfL envisage an integrated approach to the use of the river, which is not limited purely to public passenger transport. The mayor will be responsible for promoting both public transport and tourism. Ahead of the provisions coming into effect, the Government expect London River Services—as a predecessor body to TfL—to work in a similar manner. We have every confidence that it is doing just that. The Government have listened to the concerns that have been expressed—which is why my noble Friend Lord Whitty recently undertook that we would write to the chairman of London River Services to reiterate the point. We shall be doing so shortly.

I hope that that further explanation will reassure hon. Members that the interests of tourism on the river are fully recognised in the Bill's provisions and in the interim period before TfL is established.

Mr. Brooke

The alliance to which the Minister referred consists of the hon. Members for Upminster (Mr. Darvill), for Southwark, North and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes) and me. We discussed the matter in Committee, but did so before some of the developments had occurred. There is no possibility that I shall be able today to do justice to the subject, and I can only plead—through you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and given the fact that it is an all-party coalition—that Madam Speaker might be prepared to contemplate granting an Adjournment debate on the subject early in the next Session.

The Minister—whom I acknowledge knows about the issues—said that Lord Whitty will be writing to the chairman of London River Services. Although that calmed nerves in their Lordships' House, I should myself feel much better if he included in the letter an expectation, first, that London River Services will appoint a director with experience of and responsibility for tourism, and secondly, that an independent study will be made of the current impact of the introduction of transport services on current tourism services, so that both perspectives could be understood and viewed in a more balanced manner.

8 pm

Mr. Hill

I take note of the right hon. Gentleman's observations, and look forward to further exchanges in the Chamber on that subject.

It being Eight o'clock, MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER put the Question already proposed from the Chair, pursuant to the Order this day.

Lords amendment agreed to.

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER then put the remaining Questions required to be put at that hour.

Lords amendments No. 419 and Government amendment (a) thereto and No. 793 and Government amendments (a) to (f) thereto agreed to.

Question put, That this House agrees with the Lords in the remaining Lords amendments:—

The House divided: Ayes 347, Noes 133.

Division No. 299] [8.2 pm
Abbott, Ms Diane Casale, Roger
Ainger, Nick Caton, Martin
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) Chaytor, David
Alexander, Douglas Chidgey, David
Allan, Richard Clapham, Michael
Allen, Graham Clark, Rt Hon Dr David (S Shields)
Armstrong, Rt Hon Ms Hilary Clark, Dr Lynda (Edinburgh Pentlands)
Ashton, Joe
Atherton, Ms Candy Clark, Paul (Gillingham)
Atkins, Charlotte Clarke, Charles (Norwich S)
Austin, John Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)
Barnes, Harry Clarke, Rt Hon Tom (Coatbridge)
Barron, Kevin Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Bayley, Hugh Clelland, David
Beard, Nigel Clwyd, Ann
Beckett, Rt Hon Mrs Margaret Coaker, Vernon
Bell, Martin (Tatton) Coffey, Ms Ann
Bell, Stuart (Middlesbrough) Cohen, Harry
Benn, Hilary (Leeds C) Coleman, Iain
Benn, Rt Hon Tony (Chesterfield) Connarty, Michael
Bennett, Andrew F Cook, Frank (Stockton N)
Bermingham, Gerald Cooper, Yvette
Berry, Roger Corbett, Robin
Betts, Clive Corbyn, Jeremy
Blears, Ms Hazel Corston, Jean
Blizzard, Bob Cotter, Brian
Boateng, Rt Hon Paul Cousins, Jim
Borrow, David Cox, Tom
Bradley, Keith (Withington) Cranston, Ross
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin) Cryer, Mrs Ann (Keighley)
Brake, Tom Cryer, John (Hornchurch)
Brand, Dr Peter Cummings, John
Breed, Colin Cunliffe, Lawrence
Brinton, Mrs Helen Cunningham, Jim (Cov'try S)
Brown, Rt Hon Nick (Newcastle E) Curtis-Thomas, Mrs Claire
Brown, Russell (Dumfries) Dalyell, Tam
Browne, Desmond Darvill, Keith
Buck, Ms Karen Davey, Edward (Kingston)
Burden, Richard Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
Burgon, Colin Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)
Burstow, Paul Davies, Geraint (Croydon C)
Butler, Mrs Christine Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H)
Byers, Rt Hon Stephen Dean, Mrs Janet
Cable, Dr Vincent Denham, John
Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth) Dobbin, Jim
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) Donohoe, Brian H
Campbell, Rt Hon Menzies (NE Fife) Doran, Frank
Dowd, Jim
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) Drew, David
Campbell-Savours, Dale Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Caplin, Ivor Edwards, Huw
Ellman, Mrs Louise Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald
Etherington, Bill Keeble, Ms Sally
Fearn, Ronnie Keen, Alan (Feltham & Heston)
Field, Rt Hon Frank Keetch, Paul
Fisher, Mark Kelly, Ms Ruth
Fizpatrick, Jim Kemp, Fraser
Fitzsimons, Lorna Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
Flint, Caroline Khabra, Piara S
Flynn, Paul Kidney, David
Follett, Barbara Kilfoyle, Peter
Foster, Rt Hon Derek King, Andy (Rugby & Kenilworth)
Foster, Don (Bath) King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings) Kirkwood, Archy
Foster, Michael J (Worcester) Kumar, Dr Ashok
Fyfe, Maria Ladyman, Dr Stephen
Gapes, Mike Lawrence, Ms Jackie
Gardiner, Barry Laxton, Bob
George, Bruce (Walsall S) Leslie, Christopher
Gerard, Neil Levitt, Tom
Gibson, Dr Ian Lewis, Ivan (Bury S)
Gilroy, Mrs Linda Linton, Martin
Godman, Dr Norman A Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C)
Godsiff, Roger Llwyd, Elfyn
Goggins, Paul Lock, David
Golding, Mrs Llin McAvoy, Thomas
Gordon, Mrs Eileen McCabe, Steve
Griffiths, Jane (Reading E) McCartney, Rt Hon Ian (Makerfield)
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Grocott, Bruce McDonagh, Siobhain
Grogan, John Macdonald, Calum
Gunnell, John McDonnell, John
Hain, Peter McIsaac, Shona
Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale) McKenna, Mrs Rosemary
Hall, Patrick (Bedford) Mackinlay, Andrew
Hamilton, Fabian (Leeds NE) Maclennan, Rt Hon Robert
Hancock, Mike McNulty, Tony
Heal, Mrs Sylvia Mactaggart Fiona
Healey, John McWalter, Tony
Heath, David (Somerton & Frome) McWilliam, John
Henderson, Doug (Newcastle N) Mahon, Mrs Alice
Henderson, Ivan (Harwich) Mallaber, Judy
Hepburn, Stephen Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Heppell, John Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury)
Hesford, Stephen Marshall, David (Shettleston)
Hewitt, Ms Patricia Marshall-Andrews, Robert
Hill, Keith Martlew, Eric
Hinchliffe, David Maxton, John
Hodge, Ms Margaret Meale, Alan
Hood, Jimmy Merron, Gillian
Hoon, Rt Hon Geoffrey Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley)
Hope, Phil Milburn, Rt Hon Alan
Hopkins, Kelvin Miller, Andrew
Howarth, Alan (Newport E) Mitchell, Austin
Hoyle, Lindsay Moffatt, Laura
Hughes, Ms Beverley (Stretford) Moonie, Dr Lewis
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) Moran, Ms Margaret
Hughes, Simon (Southwark N) Morgan, Ms Julie (Cardiff N)
Humble, Mrs Joan Mountford, Kali
Hurst, Alan Mudie, George
Hutton, John Mullin, Chris
Iddon, Dr Brian Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck)
Illsley, Eric Murphy, Jim (Eastwood)
Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough) Murphy, Rt Hon Paul (Torfaen)
Jenkins, Brian Naysmith, Dr Doug
Johnson, Alan (Hull W & Hessle) O'Brien, Bill (Normanton)
Johnson, Miss Melanie (Welwyn Hatfield) O'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
Olner, Bill
Jones, Mrs Fiona (Newark) Organ, Mrs Diana
Jones, Helen (Warrington N) Osborne, Ms Sandra
Jones, Ms Jenny (Wolverh'ton SW) Palmer, Dr Nick
Pearson, Ian
Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) Perham, Ms Linda
Jones, Dr Lynne (Selly Oak) Pickthall, Colin
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S) Pike, Peter L
Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) Plaskitt, James
Jowell, Rt Hon Ms Tessa Pond, Chris
Pope, Greg Straw, Rt Hon Jack
Pound, Stephen Stringer, Graham
Powell, Sir Raymond Stuart, Ms Gisela
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E) Stunell, Andrew
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) Sutcliffe, Gerry
Prescott, Rt Hon John Taylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Ken Taylor, Ms Dari (Stockton S)
Quin, Rt Hon Ms Joyce Taylor, David (NW Leics)
Quinn, Lawrie Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Radice, Rt Hon Giles Temple-Morris, Peter
Rammell, Bill Thomas, Gareth (Clwyd W)
Rapson, Syd Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
Raynsford, Nick Timms, Stephen
Reed, Andrew (Loughborough) Tipping, Paddy
Rendel, David Todd, Mark
Roche, Mrs Barbara Touhig, Don
Rogers, Allan Truswell, Paul
Rooker, Jeff Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE)
Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) Turner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown)
Rowlands, Ted Turner, Dr George (NW Norfolk)
Roy, Frank Turner, Neil (Wigan)
Ruane, Chris Twigg, Derek (Halton)
Ruddock, Joan Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Russell, Bob (Colchester) Tynan, Bill
Russell, Ms Christine (Chester) Walley, Ms Joan
Ryan, Ms Joan Ward, Ms Claire
Salter, Martin Wareing, Robert N
Sanders, Adrian Watts, David
Sarwar, Mohammad Webb, Steve
Savidge, Malcolm White, Brian
Sawford, Phil Whitehead, Dr Alan
Sedgemore, Brian Wicks, Malcolm
Shaw, Jonathan Wigley, Rt Hon Dafydd
Sheerman, Barry Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Swansea W)
Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert
Short, Rt Hon Clare Williams, Alan W (E Carmarthen)
Simpson, Alan (Nottingham S) Williams, Mrs Betty (Conwy)
Singh, Marsha Willis, Phil
Skinner, Dennis Wills, Michael
Smith, Rt Hon Andrew (Oxford E) Winnick, David
Smith, Angela (Basildon) Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
Smith, John (Glamorgan) Wise, Audrey
Southworth, Ms Helen Wood, Mike
Spellar, John Woolas, Phil
Squire, Ms Rachel Worthington, Tony
Starkey, Dr Phyllis Wright, Dr Tony (Cannock)
Steinberg, Gerry Wyatt, Derek
Stewart, David (Inverness E)
Stewart, Ian (Eccles) Tellers for the Ayes:
Stinchcombe, Paul Mr. David Jamieson and
Strang, Rt Hon Dr Gavin Mrs. Anne McGuire.
Amess, David Chope, Christopher
Ancram, Rt Hon Michael Clappison, James
Arbuthnot, Rt Hon James Clark, Dr Michael (Rayleigh)
Atkinson, David (Bour'mth E) Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Rushcliffe)
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)
Baldry, Tony Collins, Tim
Bercow, John Colvin, Michael
Beresford, Sir Paul Cormack, Sir Patrick
Blunt, Crispin Cran, James
Boswell, Tim Curry, Rt Hon David
Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W) Davies, Quentin (Grantham)
Bottomley, Rt Hon Mrs Virginia Davis, Rt Hon David (Haltemprice & Howden)
Brady, Graham
Brazier, Julian Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter Duncan, Alan
Browning, Mrs Angela Duncan Smith, Iain
Bruce, Ian (S Dorset) Evans, Nigel
Burns, Simon Faber, David
Butterfill, John Fabricant, Michael
Cash, William Fallon, Michael
Chapman, Sir Sydney (Chipping Barnet) Flight, Howard
Forth, Rt Hon Eric
Fox, Dr Liam Page, Richard
Fraser, Christopher Paice, James
Gale, Roger Paterson, Owen
Garnier, Edward Pickles, Eric
Gibb, Nick Prior, David
Gill, Christopher Randall, John
Gray, James Redwood, Rt Hon John
Green, Damian Robathan, Andrew
Greenway, John Robertson, Laurence
Grieve, Dominic Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne)
Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archie Ruffley, David
Hammond, Philip St Aubyn, Nick
Hawkins, Nick Sayeed, Jonathan
Hayes, John Shephard, Rt Hon Mrs Gillian
Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David Shepherd, Richard
Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas Simpson, Keith (Mid-Norfolk)
Horam, John Soames, Nicholas
Hunter, Andrew Spelman, Mrs Caroline
Jack, Rt Hon Michael Spring, Richard
Jenkin, Bernard Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John
Key, Robert Streeter, Gary
King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater) Swayne, Desmond
Kirkbride, Miss Julie Syms, Robert
Lait, Mrs Jacqui Tapsell, Sir Peter
Lansley, Andrew Taylor, Ian (Esher & Walton)
Leigh, Edward Taylor, John M (Solihull)
Lidington, David Taylor, Sir Teddy
Lilley, Rt Hon Peter Townend, John
Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham) Tredinnick, David
Loughton, Tim Trend, Michael
Luff, Peter Tyrie, Andrew
Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas Viggers, Peter
MacGregor, Rt Hon John Wardle, Charles
McIntosh, Miss Anne Waterson, Nigel
MacKay, Rt Hon Andrew Wells, Bowen
Maclean, Rt Hon David Whitney, Sir Raymond
McLoughlin, Patrick Whittingdale, John
Madel, Sir David Wilkinson, John
Malins, Humfrey Willetts, David
Maples, John Wilshire, David
Mates, Michael Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton)
Maude, Rt Hon Francis Woodward, Shaun
Mawhinney, Rt Hon Sir Brian Yeo, Tim
May, Mrs Theresa Young, Rt Hon Sir George
Moss, Malcolm
Nicholls, Patrick Tellers for the Noes:
O'Brien, Stephen (Eddisbury) Mrs. Eleanor Laing and
Ottaway, Richard Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown.

Question accordingly agreed to.

Lords amendments agreed to.

Consequential Government amendment agreed to.

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