§ Amendments made: No. 72, in page 68, line 30, at end insert—
§ '() section (Excessive pension contributions made by persons who have become insolvent);'.
§ No. 73, in page 68, line 30, at end insert—
§ `() paragraph 1ZA of Schedule 2, and section 16 so far as relating thereto;'.
§ No. 74, in page 68, line 32, after '5' insert 'and 62A to 62C'.
§ No. 75, in page 68, line 36, after & 13' insert
§ `and (Excessive pension contributions made by persons who have become insolvent: Scotland);'.
§ No. 76, in page 68, line 36, leave out 'and' and insert—
§ '() paragraph 1YA of Schedule 2, and section 16 so far as relating thereto;
§ () section'.
§ No. 77, in page 69, line 3, after 'paragraphs' insert '1YA, 1ZA,'.
§ No. 107, in page 69, line 8, after '64', insert
§ ',(Earnings of workers supplied by service companies etc.)'.
§ No. 52, in page 69, line 12, leave out '68' and insert '68A'.
§ No. 110, in page 69, line 33, after '65', insert
',(Earnings of workers supplied by service companies etc: Northern Ireland).'—[Mr. Kevin Hughes.]
§ Order for Third Reading read.—[Queen's consent, on behalf of the Crown, signified.]
§ Motion made, and Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time.—[Mr. Robert Ainsworth.]
§ The House proceeded to a Division—
§ Mr. David Davis(seated and covered) (Haltemprice and Howden)On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The convention in the House is that Finance Bills are not guillotined—
§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Lord)Order. I understand that the microphones are not on. They will be put on as quickly as possible.
§ Mr. DavisThe effect of today's guillotine is that amendment No. 27, which would have removed clause 71 from the Bill, was incapable of being debated. Clause 71 has an effect greater than any Finance Bill, in that it removes the requirement for primary legislation prior to major expenditure by the lead Department today.
Can you give me some assistance, Mr. Deputy Speaker, so that the House can be protected from that mechanism in the future? Is it possible for the substantive point within 1338 the amendment to be dealt with by the Government at some point? I see that there is a Minister on the Treasury Bench who may be able to help us.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerI understand the right hon. Gentleman's point, but the House has agreed the guillotine motion and things have simply have transpired in the way that he has described.
§ Mr. TimmsFurther to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. This is an important power which allows us to proceed with investment in new computer systems for changes to the benefit system. I understand that it would be helpful to the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr. Davis), who chairs the Public Accounts Committee, and to the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire (Mr. Kirkwood), who chairs the Select Committee on Social Security, if we could agree an arrangement whereby the report, which will be submitted to the House to permit the expenditure to go ahead could, in normal circumstances, be looked at by those Committees before the House reaches a decision.
Subject to discussion between us, I am sure that we could come up with a mechanism to ensure that that happens in normal circumstances.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerI am grateful to the Minister for his response.
§ The House having divided: Ayes 360, Noes 142.
1342| Division No. 194] | [7.45 pm |
| AYES | |
| Adams, Mrs Irene (Paisley N) | Buck, Ms Karen |
| Ainger, Nick | Burden, Richard |
| Alexander, Douglas | Burgon, Colin |
| Allen, Graham | Butler, Mrs Christine |
| Anderson, Donald (Swansea E) | Byers, Rt Hon Stephen |
| Anderson, Janet (Rossendale) | Caborn, Rt Hon Richard |
| Armstrong, Rt Hon Ms Hilary | Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth) |
| Ashton, Joe | Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) |
| Atherton, Ms Candy | Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) |
| Atkins, Charlotte | Campbell—Savours, Dale |
| Banks, Tony | Cann, Jamie |
| Barron, Kevin | Caplin, Ivor |
| Battle, John | Casale, Roger |
| Bayley, Hugh | Caton, Martin |
| Beard, Nigel | Cawsey, Ian |
| Beckett, Rt Hon Mrs Margaret | Chapman, Ben (Wirral S) |
| Begg, Miss Anne | Church, Ms Judith |
| Bell, Stuart (Middlesbrough) | Clapham, Michael |
| Bennett, Andrew F | Clark, Rt Hon Dr David (S Shields) |
| Benton, Joe | Clark, Dr Lynda (Edinburgh Pentlands) |
| Bermingham, Gerald | |
| Best, Harold | Clark, Paul (Gillingham) |
| Betts, Clive | Clarke, Charles (Norwich S) |
| Blackman, Liz | Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) |
| Blears, Ms Hazel | Clarke, Rt Hon Tom (Coatbridge) |
| Blizzard, Bob | Clarke, Tony (Northampton S) |
| Blunkett, Rt Hon David | Clelland, David |
| Boateng, Paul | Clwyd, Ann |
| Borrow, David | Coaker, Vernon |
| Bradley, Keith (Withington) | Coffey, Ms Ann |
| Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin) | Cohen, Harry |
| Bradshaw, Ben | Coleman, Iain |
| Brinton, Mrs Helen | Colman, Tony |
| Brown, Rt Hon Gordon | Corbett, Robin |
| (Dunfermline E) | Corston, Ms Jean |
| Brown, Rt Hon Nick (Newcastle E) | Cousins, Jim |
| Brown, Russell (Dumfries) | Cox, Tom |
| Browne, Desmond | Cranston, Ross |
| Crausby, David | Hood, Jimmy |
| Cummings, John | Hoon, Geoffrey |
| Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr Jack | Hope, Phil |
| (Copeland) | Howarth, Alan (Newport E) |
| Cunningham, Jim (Cov'try S) | Howarth, George (Knowsley N) |
| Curtis—Thomas, Mrs Claire | Howells, Dr Kim |
| Darling, Rt Hon Alistair | Hoyle, Lindsay |
| Darvill, Keith | Hughes, Ms Beverley (Stretford) |
| Davey, Valerie (Bristol W) | Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) |
| Davidson, Ian | Humble, Mrs Joan |
| Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) | Hurst, Alan |
| Davies, Geraint (Croydon C) | Hutton, John |
| Dawson, Hilton | Iddon, Dr Brian |
| Dean, Mrs Janet | Illsley, Eric |
| Denham, John | Ingram, Rt Hon Adam |
| Dewar, Rt Hon Donald | Jackson, Ms Glenda (Hampstead) |
| Dismore, Andrew | |
| Dobson, Rt Hon Frank | Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough) |
| Donohoe, Brian H | Jamieson, David |
| Doran, Frank | Jenkins, Brian |
| Dowd, Jim | Johnson, Alan (Hull W & Hessle) |
| Drew, David | Johnson, Miss Melanie |
| Drown, Ms Julia | (Welwyn Hatfield) |
| Eagle, Angela (Wallasey) | Jones, Barry (Alyn & Deeside) |
| Eagle, Maria (L'pool Garston) | Jones, Mrs Fiona (Newark) |
| Edwards, Huw | Jones, Helen (Warrington N) |
| Efford, Clive | Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) |
| Ellman, Mrs Louise | Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S) |
| Ennis, Jeff | Jowell, Rt Hon Ms Tessa |
| Etherington, Bill | Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald |
| Field, Rt Hon Frank | Keeble, Ms Sally |
| Fisher, Mark | Keen, Alan (Feltham & Heston) |
| Fitzpatrick, Jim | Keen, Ann (Brentford & Isleworth) |
| Fitzsimons, Lorna | Kelly, Ms Ruth |
| Flint, Caroline | Kemp, Fraser |
| Flynn, Paul | |
| Follett, Barbara | Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree) |
| Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings) | Khabra, Piara S |
| Foster, Michael J (Worcester) | Kidney, David |
| Foulkes, George | Kilfoyle, Peter |
| Fyfe, Maria | King, Andy (Rugby & Kenilworth) |
| Galbraith, Sam | King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green) |
| Gapes, Mike | Kingham, Ms Tess |
| Gardiner, Barry | Kumar, Dr Ashok |
| George, Bruce (Walsall S) | Ladyman, Dr Stephen |
| Gerrard, Neil | Lawrence, Ms Jackie |
| Gibson, Dr Ian | Laxton, Bob |
| Gilroy, Mrs Linda | Lepper, David |
| Godman, Dr Norman A | Leslie, Christopher |
| Godsiff, Roger | Levitt, Tom |
| Goggins, Paul | Lewis, Ivan (Bury S) |
| Gordon, Mrs Eileen | Liddell, Rt Hon Mrs Helen |
| Griffiths, Jane (Reading E) | Linton, Martin |
| Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) | Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C) |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Lock, David |
| Grocott, Bruce | Love, Andrew |
| Grogan, John | McAvoy, Thomas |
| Gunnell, John | McCabe, Steve |
| Hain, Peter | McCartney, Rt Hon Ian |
| Hall, Patrick (Bedford) | (Makerfield) |
| Hamilton, Fabian (Leeds NE) | McDonagh, Siobhain |
| Hanson, David | Macdonald, Calum |
| Harman, Rt Hon Ms Harriet | McFall, John |
| Heal, Mrs Sylvia | McGuire, Mrs Anne |
| Healey, John | Mclsaac, Shona |
| Henderson, Doug (Newcastle N) | |
| Henderson, Ivan (Harwich) | McKenna, Mrs Rosemary |
| Hepburn, Stephen | Mackinlay, Andrew |
| Heppell, John | McLeish, Henry |
| Hesford, Stephen | McNamara, Kevin |
| Hewitt, Ms Patricia | McNulty, Tony |
| Hill, Keith | MacShane, Denis |
| Hinchliffe, David | Mactaggart, Fiona |
| Hodge, Ms Margaret | McWalter, Tony |
| Hoey, Kate | Mallaber, Judy |
| Home Robertson, John |
| Mandelson, Rt Hon Peter | Sarwar, Mohammad |
| Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S) | Savidge, Malcolm |
| Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury) | Sawford, Phil |
| Marshall, David (Shettleston) | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) | Shaw, Jonathan |
| Marshall—Andrews, Robert | Sheerman, Barry |
| Martlew, Eric | Shipley, Ms Debra |
| Maxton, John | Singh, Marsha |
| Meacher, Rt Hon Michael | Skinner, Dennis |
| Meale, Alan | Smith, Rt Hon Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Merron, Gillian | Smith, Angela (Basildon) |
| Michael, Rt Hon Alun | Smith, Rt Hon Chris (Islington S) |
| Milburn, Rt Hon Alan | Smith, Miss Geraldine |
| Miller, Andrew | (Morecambe & Lunesdale) |
| Moffatt, Laura | Smith, Jacqui (Redditch) |
| Moonie, Dr Lewis | Smith, John (Glamorgan) |
| Moran, Ms Margaret | Soley, Clive |
| Morgan, Ms Julie (Cardiff N) | Southworth, Ms Helen |
| Morgan, Rhodri (Cardiff W) | Spellar, John |
| Morley, Elliot | Squire, Ms Rachel |
| Morris, Rt Hon John (Aberavon) | Starkey, Dr Phyllis |
| Mountford, Kali | Steinberg, Gerry |
| Mowlam, Rt Hon Marjorie | Stevenson, George |
| Mudie, George | Stewart, David (Inverness E) |
| Mullin, Chris | Stinchcombe, Paul |
| Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck) | Stoate, Dr Howard |
| Murphy, Jim (Eastwood) | Stott, Roger |
| Murphy, Rt Hon Paul (Torfaen) | Strang, Rt Hon Dr Gavin |
| Naysmith, Dr Doug | Straw, Rt Hon Jack |
| Norris, Dan | Stringer, Graham |
| O'Brien, Bill (Normanton) | Stuart, Ms Gisela |
| O'Brien, Mike (N Warks) | Sutcliffe, Gerry |
| O'Hara, Eddie | Taylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann |
| Olner, Bill | (Dewsbury) |
| O'Neill, Martin | Taylor, Ms Dari (Stockton S) |
| Organ, Mrs Diana | Taylor, David (NW Leis) |
| Osborne, Ms Sandra | Temple—Morris, Peter |
| Palmer, Dr Nick | Thomas, Gareth (Clwyd W) |
| Pearson, Ian | Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W) |
| Pendry, Tom | Timms, Stephen |
| Perham, Ms Linda | Tipping, Paddy |
| Pickthall, Colin | Todd, Mark |
| Pike, Peter L | Touhig, Don |
| Plaskitt, James | Trickett, Jon |
| Pollard, Kerry | Truswell, Paul |
| Pond, Chris | Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE) |
| Pope, Greg | Turner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown) |
| Powell, Sir Raymond | Turner, Dr George (NW Norfolk) |
| Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E) | Twigg, Derek (Halton) |
| Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) | Twigg, Stephen (Enfield) |
| Prescott, Rt Hon John | Vaz, Keith |
| Primarolo, Dawn | Vis, Dr Rudi |
| Prosser, Gwyn | Walley, Ms Joan |
| Purchase, Ken | Ward, Ms Claire |
| Quin, Rt Hon Ms Joyce | Watts, David |
| Quinn, Lawrie | White, Brian |
| Radice, Giles | Whitehead, Dr Alan |
| Rammell, Bill | Wicks, Malcolm |
| Rapson, Syd | Williams, Rt Hon Alan |
| Raynsford, Nick | (Swansea W) |
| Reed, Andrew (Loughborough) | Williams, Alan W (E Carmarthen) |
| Reid, Rt Hon Dr John (Hamilton N) | Williams, Mrs Betty (Conwy) |
| Robertson, Rt Hon George | Wills, Michael |
| (Hamilton S) | Wilson, Brian |
| Roche, Mrs Barbara | Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C) |
| Rooney, Terry | Woolas, Phil |
| Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) | Worthington, Tony |
| Rowlands, Ted | Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth) |
| Roy, Frank | Wright, Dr Tony (Cannock) |
| Ruane, Chris | Wyatt, Derek |
| Ruddock, Joan | |
| Russell, Ms Christine (Chester) | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Ryan, Ms Joan | Mr. Mike Hall and |
| Salter, Martin | Mr. Robert Ainsworth. |
| NOES | |
| Amess, David | Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Arbuthnot, Rt Hon James | Evans, Nigel |
| Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy | Faber, David |
| Atkinson, David (Bour'mth E) | Fabricant, Michael |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Fallon, Michael |
| Beggs, Roy | Fearn, Ronnie |
| Beith, Rt Hon A J | Flight, Howard |
| Bercow, John | Forsythe, Clifford |
| Beresford, Sir Paul | Forth, Rt Hon Eric |
| Blunt, Crispin | Foster, Don (Bath) |
| Body, Sir Richard | Gale, Roger |
| Boswell, Tim | Garnier, Edward |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Mrs Virginia | Gibb, Nick |
| Brand, Dr Peter | Gillen, Mrs Cheryl |
| Brazier, Julian | Gorman, Mrs Teresa |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Gray, James |
| Browning, Mrs Angela | Green, Damian |
| Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) | Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archie |
| Burnett, John | Hammond, Philip |
| Burns, Simon | Hawkins, Nick |
| Campbell, Rt Hon Menzies | Heath, David (Somerton & Frome) |
| (NE Fife) | Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas |
| Cash, William | Horam, John |
| Chapman, Sir Sydney(Chipping Barnet) | Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot) |
| Chidgey, David | Hughes, Simon (Southwark N) |
| Chope, Christopher | Hunter, Andrew |
| Clappison, James | Jack, Rt Hon Michael |
| Clifton—Brown, Geoffrey | Jackson, Robert (Wantage) |
| Colvin, Michael | Jenkin, Bernard |
| Cormack, Sir Patrick | Johnson Smith, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey |
| Cotter, Brian | Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) |
| Cran, James | Kennedy, Charles (Ross Skye) |
| Davey, Edward (Kingston) | Key, Robert |
| Davies, Quentin (Grantham) | King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater) |
| Davis, Rt Hon David (Haltemprice & Howden) | Kirkbride, Miss Julie |
| Duncan, Alan | Kirkwood, Archy |
| Duncan Smith, Iain | Laing, Mrs Eleanor |
| Lait, Mrs Jacqui |
| Lansley, Andrew | Simpson, Keith (Mid-Norfolk) |
| Leigh, Edward | Smyth, Rev Martin (Belfast S) |
| Letwin, Oliver | Soames, Nicholas |
| Lewis, Dr Julian (New Forest E) | Spicer, Sir Michael |
| Lidington, David | Stunell, Andrew |
| Lilley, Rt Hon Peter | Swayne, Desmond |
| Livsey, Richard | Syms, Robert |
| Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham) | Tapsell, Sir Peter |
| Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas | Taylor, Ian (Esher & Walton) |
| McIntosh, Miss Anne | Taylor, Sir Teddy |
| MacKay, Rt Hon Andrew | Thompson, William |
| McLoughlin, Patrick | Tonge, Dr Jenny |
| Maude, Rt Hon Francis | Tredinnick, David |
| Mawhinney, Rt Hon Sir Brian | Trend, Michael |
| May, Mrs Theresa | Tyler, Paul |
| Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute) | Tyrie, Andrew |
| Moss, Malcolm | Viggers, Peter |
| Norman, Archie | Walter, Robert |
| Oaten, Mark | Wardle, Charles |
| Öpik, Lembit | Waterson, Nigel |
| Ottaway, Richard | Webb, Steve |
| Page, Richard | Wells, Bowen |
| Paice, James | Welsh, Andrew |
| Paterson, Owen | Whitney, Sir Raymond |
| Pickles, Eric | Widdecombe, Rt Hon Miss Ann |
| Prior, David | Wilkinson, John |
| Randall, John | Willis, Phil |
| Redwood, Rt Hon John | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Robathan, Andrew | Winterton, Nicholas (Macclesfield) |
| Robertson, Laurence (Tewk'b'ry) | Woodward, Shaun |
| Ross, William (E Lond'y) | Yeo, Tim |
| Rowe, Andrew (Faversham) | Young, Rt Hon Sir George |
| Ruffley, David | |
| Russell, Bob (Colchester) | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Sanders, Adrian | Mr. Oliver Heald and |
| Shepherd, Richard | Mr. Stephen Day. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Bill read the Third time, and passed.