HC Deb 30 March 1999 vol 328 cc850-3
8. Mr. Oliver Letwin (West Dorset)

How many patients have been removed from central returns health service waiting list statistics since 2 May 1997, without having received the treatment intended. [77706]

The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr. John Denham)

National health service waiting lists are falling because thousands of extra patients are being treated; more than 4 million elective patients have been treated in the first nine months of 1998–99—a third of a million more than a year ago.

Patients may be removed from waiting lists for a number of reasons other than treatment; for example, if they have recovered from their illness, or have been treated elsewhere. During the first three quarters of this year, 490,000 patients were removed from waiting lists; that means that the proportion of patients removed from the waiting list has remained broadly stable over recent years.

Mr. Letwin

Why has the number of patients waiting to get on to waiting lists apparently doubled since May 1997?

Mr. Denham

It would be better for the hon. Gentleman to acknowledge what has been achieved in Dorset, where he comes from and where the allocation of an additional £4.2 million means that 8,000 more people were seen in hospitals in the Dorset health authority area during the first half of this year than in the first half of 1997–98. That additional work is a tribute to the staff of the national health service, whom he should not try to undermine.

Dr. Brian Iddon (Bolton, South-East)

Will my hon. Friend ensure that all people with Down's syndrome have equality of access to all waiting lists? According to the Down's Syndrome Association, that is not the case at present; contrary to Government policy, some practitioners are treating those patients as second-class citizens. My hon. Friend will be aware of a recent television documentary that highlighted some cases, and some hon. Members will be aware of other cases.

Mr. Denham

I shall certainly look into any cases that my hon. Friend draws to my attention. It is the case that clinical need is the principle that governs the national health service.

Mr. Simon Hughes (Southwark, North and Bermondsey)

I hope that the Minister will answer my actual question and not the one he hoped I would ask.

This morning, we have seen that, for the first time, the figures for waiting lists in England have fallen below the level that Labour inherited in May 1997, and we accept those figures. However, the number of those waiting more than 12 weeks to see their consultant, after seeing their doctor, has risen from about 250,000 to about 500,000, and the number of those still waiting for treatment more than a year after they have seen their consultant has risen from about 30,000 to just over 50,000. Given those figures, when will the Government change from their obsession with lists—which do not matter in the slightest to patients—to an obsession with waiting times, which matter deeply to patients? Will they tell us when those waiting times—between doctor and consultant, and consultant and treatment—will be below the level that Labour inherited from the previous Government?

Mr. Denham

First, the number of people waiting more than a year has fallen. Secondly, the number of people referred to out-patients includes those—perhaps 150,000—who attend for post-surgery visits. We intend to pay attention to out-patients; we are considering our planning for this year and anticipate that about a third of a million more out-patients will be treated in the coming year. That will take the number to be treated to more than 11 million for the first time.

Mr. Ivan Lewis (Bury, South)

Does my hon. Friend agree that the past 24 hours have been a significant demonstration of the contrast between the Labour Government's approach to the NHS and that of the Conservatives? The falling waiting lists contrast with the statement made by the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Mr. Duncan) articulating the Tory philosophy of the massive expansion of the private health care sector as a solution to the country's health care difficulties.

Mr. Denham

My hon. Friend is right. While the Labour Government are building a new national health service—modern, dependable and there when people need it—the Opposition have given up on the national health service.

Mr. Stephen Dorrell (Charnwood)

Does the Minister recall that, before the election, the objective of the NHS was that 90 per cent. of patients should be seen in out-patients within 13 weeks of their first referral by a GP, and that the remaining 10 per cent. should be seen, at the latest, within 26 weeks of referral? Is it true— I cannot believe that it is—that the Government have junked that objective? If it is true, what alternative, tighter target have the Government set in its place?

Mr. Denham

No, we have not junked the objective, but we are delivering on our manifesto commitment to cut waiting lists, and we have now brought them down to below the level that we inherited.

Mr. Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley)

What advice does my hon. Friend have for a constituent of mine who has been waiting for a heart bypass for many months? In the past few months, he has three times been sent to the hospital, gowned up, given pre-meds and then sent home. I understand that he is to go tomorrow to try again. I also understand that the Freeman hospital, Newcastle upon Tyne, has only five emergency beds.

Mr. Denham

I hope that my hon. Friend's constituent will benefit from the measures that the Government are taking to invest in the NHS: from 1 April begins the investment of an extra £21 billion in the NHS, and we have announced a further £320 million to tackle waiting lists in 1999–2000. The measures announced by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on nurse retention and recruitment are the key to ensuring that hospitals are properly staffed and able to meet their commitments to patients.

Mr. Alan Duncan (Rutland and Melton)

Today is not the triumph for the Minister that he would like people to believe it is. Instead of a serious improvement in what is really happening to patients who need treatment, there has been a published fall in the number of people on waiting lists together with a parallel rise in the number of people waiting to get on waiting lists in the first place. The real figure is far higher—[Interruption.]—as the Secretary of State, who is barracking from the Front Bench, well knows. People on the lists are waiting longer—[Interruption.]—in the case of the Alexandra hospital, Redditch, they are waiting more than 1,000 per cent. longer. Will the Minister, perhaps to a quiet House, now confirm that he has not yet met his pre-election pledge? In the interests of doing what is good for patients rather than for politicians, will he now drop his ill-conceived waiting list policy altogether and concentrate on what is good for the treatment of people who need it?

Mr. Denham

All the 450,000 extra operations carried out last year were performed on people who needed them. Which of them would the hon. Gentleman prefer we had not treated?

Mr. Hilton Dawson (Lancaster and Wyre)

Will my hon. Friend commend the approach to waiting lists adopted by the new Morecambe Bay Hospitals NHS trust? In its first year of operation, which ends tomorrow, the trust has achieved not only its waiting list targets, but management savings of a recurrent £400,000 per annum. It has targets of a further recurrent £400,000 per annum next year, and all that money will be diverted into patient care. Will my hon. Friend commend every single person who works in that hospital trust on their excellent work?

Mr. Denham

I certainly commend all the staff in that hospital trust, and all the staff in the NHS, without whose work we could not have achieved the fall in waiting lists that has been announced today. My hon. Friend is right to refer to the efficiency with which his local trust and many others now operate. Supported by the waiting list task force, the NHS is not only treating more patients, but treating them better, and organising services in more effective and more efficient ways. I am sure that my hon. Friend's local hospital is an example to the rest of the country.

11. Mr. Nick St. Aubyn (Guildford)

Which health authorities have discussed with general practitioners measures to reduce the number of patients which they refer to hospitals for surgery for which there is a waiting list. [77709]

The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr. John Denham)

I would expect all health authorities and primary care groups regularly to discuss with GPs arrangements to ensure that patients receive the treatment they need, as quickly as possible. That is the key to improving health, reducing inequalities and modernising NHS services. Reductions in waiting lists are being achieved on the back of record growth in activity, with an extra 460,000 patients expected to be treated in 1998–99 than a year earlier.

Mr. St. Aubyn

In view of the exchanges that we have heard this afternoon, will the Minister confirm to the House that the number of patients who have waited more than 13 weeks to see a specialist has increased by more than 200,000 since Labour came to power?

Mr. Denham

I repeat what I said earlier: in planning for next year, we anticipate treating at least a third of a million more out-patients. That will take the number of out-patients to be treated in the national health service above 11 million for the first time.

Dr. Evan Harris (Oxford, West and Abingdon)

Does the Minister think it is ethical for GPs to be told that their patients cannot be referred for major operations because hospitals are trying to reduce waiting lists by performing only small operations and spending insufficient money? Does the Minister accept that that practice is prevalent, and will he condemn it?

Mr. Denham

I assure the hon. Gentleman absolutely that, if he can give me chapter and verse on those allegations, I shall look into them. We have made it perfectly clear that we do not expect and will not tolerate any manipulation of waiting list figures. I shall certainly examine any cases that the hon. Gentleman uncovers.