HC Deb 23 March 1999 vol 328 cc150-2
8. Mrs. Rosemary McKenna (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

When he last met representatives of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to discuss the local government settlement for 1999–2000. [76312]

The Minister for Home Affairs and Devolution, Scottish Office (Mr. Henry McLeish)

My right hon. Friend and I last met the convention on 22 January to discuss the terms of the 1999–2000 local government finance settlement.

From 1 July 1999, this will be a matter for the Scottish Parliament.

Mrs. McKenna

Will my hon. Friend wish COSLA well before it begins its annual conference later this week in Crieff?

As my hon. Friend will know, local government spending on vital services in Scotland has increased dramatically under the new Labour Government. Do the figures not give the lie to the fantasy statistics produced by the Liberal Democrats and the Scottish National party, which suggest that spending is lower under this Government than under the Tory Government? Are we not, step by step, delivering for Scotland?

Mr. McLeish

I am pleased to say that both my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I will visit Crieff this week to address the COSLA conference.

My hon. Friend is right to suggest that the local government settlement for 1999–2000, and up to 2001, is substantial. We are securing vastly improved services, and an injection of an extra £840 million, including additional resources for pre-school education. In 1997, the Conservatives increased the band D council tax by 10.7 per cent.; we halved that last year, and this year it will be only 2.6 per cent. We are securing better services, lower council tax increases and improved quality of life in every part of Scotland.

Mr. James Wallace (Orkney and Shetland)

I acknowledge and, indeed, welcome the fact that the local government settlement is going up this year and in the forthcoming year, after seven years in which it has been reduced in terms of 1998–99 prices, and is scheduled to go up again in each of the succeeding two years.

By the same token, will the Minister acknowledge and, indeed, regret the fact that, over the last five years of the Conservative Government and the first five years of the current Labour Government, the average spend for local government is £460 million per annum less in real terms? Like me, the Minister has often criticised the Conservative party for the impact that its spending plans had on local government. What impact does he expect this settlement to have, given that in real terms—in terms of buying power—it is 5 per cent. lower than what the Conservative party was spending each year?

Mr. McLeish

My constituents, and all the other constituents in Scotland, are less interested in arbitrary bartering of statistics than in hard investment in education and every other aspect of local government. It is possible to make any comparison by selecting a figure out of thin air, but the hard reality is that we said, "Education, education, education," and that in every council there is real investment, especially in services for the under-fives. That is what ordinary constituents want, and that is what a Labour Government are delivering.

Mr. John McAllion (Dundee, East)

Given that the local government settlement is part of a four-year budget for the Scottish Parliament, has my hon. Friend discussed with COSLA the SNP's strange proposal to cut £1,000 million from that budget, add £690 million back in, and then claim still to be spending more, rather than less, on services? Has my hon. Friend considered asking COSLA whether it would be possible to send the SNP spokespeople back to school to learn how to do their sums? Does he agree that not since 1707 have we seen such a parcel of dopes in the nation?

Mr. McLeish

My hon. Friend has made a remarkably good contribution—but, if we sent members of the SNP back to school, there would be very few computers in the classroom to deal with their problems.

What the SNP is offering is a national disgrace. The Labour Government are investing in every part of education, but all that the SNP can do is continue to hoodwink the electors. How can those with a policy of breaking up Britain be interested in any other aspect of public services?

Mr. John Swinney (North Tayside)

Has the Minister discussed with COSLA the contents of a parliamentary answer that he gave last week to my hon. Friend the Member for Moray (Mrs. Ewing), which stated that, since Labour came to power, £750 million has been cut from local authorities' budgets? Is the Minister aware of the real damage that the cut does to public services, or does he—like the hon. Member for Falkirk, East (Mr. Connarty)—believe that local authorities are awash with resources? If the hon. Member for Dundee, East (Mr. McAllion) believes that anyone requires to go back to school, does he believe that the Chancellor of the Exchequer—who has had to do a superb U-turn on the ridiculous figures that he published seven days ago—should go back to school, to learn how £230 million really does not mean £500 million?

Mr. McLeish

The hon. Gentleman is simply struggling. We are talking about real investment of £840 million over the next three years, and he cannot argue against the facts. In every school in Scotland, and in every service in Scotland, there will be more cash. It is absurd for the SNP to pretend that there is anything that it can do to improve the quality of life in Scotland. However, if the SNP gets anyone to vote for it, it will be about breaking up Britain—and divorce is very expensive.

Mr. George Galloway (Glasgow, Kelvin)

Did the local authorities laugh when faced with the economic illiteracy of the SNP and the Liberal Democrats—who are now in alliance, and who voted last week to take £1 billion out of public spending, thereby lining themselves up with every opportunist tax-cutting argument? At the same time, they pretend that with 1p—the longest "p" in history—they will be able to rebuild Scotland's public services, which were run down over 18 years of Thatcherite Government. Will not anyone with eyes to see be able to understand that a country that has been systematically run down can be rebuilt only step by step, as the Labour Government are doing?

Mr. McLeish

My hon. Friend adds to the other excellent contribution from my hon. Friend the Member for Dundee, East (Mr. McAllion). It is a tragedy to see the SNP seeking to cut investment in Scotland, at a time when we are spending. As for education, there will be a 6.4 per cent. increase next year; a 4.4 per cent. increase in 2000–01; and a further 4 per cent. in 2001–02. That is about investing in Scotland's future. The Labour Government will continue to do that, despite the fact that the SNP is walking away from reality and the needs of Scotland.