§ Mr. William Ross (East Londonderry)It is a pleasure to be able to raise this issue today. I hope that the Minister will recognise that, if some of my hon. Friends leave before he finishes speaking, it is not intended as a discourtesy to him. A past leader of our party is preaching at a service in honour of St. Patrick today, and the hon. Gentleman will no doubt appreciate that that, too, is a draw.
I welcome the opportunity to raise the issue of health and safety at Northern Ireland soccer grounds. I do so in an optimistic frame of mind, given the Minister's recognition, during last night's debate on the national stadium for Northern Ireland, that there is now a demand that the Province should have sporting facilities at least on a par with those in other regions of the United Kingdom. That matter concerns a great many people in Northern Ireland—in particular, my constituents in Coleraine, where the showgrounds were recently threatened with closure following the serving on the local football club of three health and safety improvement orders. Those orders were the inevitable consequence of the current legislation. As I am sure that the Minister will appreciate that, if council officials had not acted, they would have been held culpable in the event of a disaster, on the ground that they were not enforcing the necessary health and safety regulations.
Those orders were served last October. At the time, Coleraine football club was given six months to come up with £250,000 to pay for the necessary improvements. That was never a realistic time scale or, indeed, a realistic prospect, given the low attendance and the consequential general lack of finance in the Irish league at present. Thankfully, it appears that the club will now be given a little breathing space to sort itself out, but the problem remains and is certain to spread to other senior soccer clubs in Northern Ireland if the Government do not act soon and come up with a coherent plan and appropriate funding to create a way forward for the Irish league soccer grounds in the Province.
The Minister is well aware of the problems to which I refer. For example, he and my right hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (Mr. Trimble) have received several hundred postcards from ordinary fans in the Province, who have been supporting the call of the Northern Ireland Football Supporters Association for Government assistance to fund the improvement of spectator and safety facilities at all senior Irish league clubs.
I am also aware that the Minister recently met my hon. Friend the Member for South Antrim (Mr. Forsythe), together with a number of other hon. Members, to discuss many of these problems. My hon. Friend came away from that meeting encouraged by the Minister's helpful attitude. I hope that the Minister departed feeling equally contented, given that he had just been in the company of a man who, to my knowledge, is the only serving Member of Parliament to have won an Irish cup winner's medal—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"] Oh, yes.
It appears that many of the problems that senior football clubs in Northern Ireland now face are a direct result of the imbalance of grant aid that they receive in comparison with their mainland counterparts. As I understand it, 1080 the principal source of funding that is currently available to Irish league clubs is the lottery sports fund, administered by the Sports Council for Northern Ireland. That initiative offers up to 50 per cent. of costs, but only up to a maximum award of £50,000 towards safety work at identified spectator venues, including Irish league grounds—but there are other calls on the funds.
According to the Sports Council for Northern Ireland, the lottery sports fund in the Province has an allocation of only £4 million available each year, and applications for that money—mainly from soccer, rugby and Gaelic Athletic Association clubs—are running in excess of £21 million. Clearly, the solution to the problems faced by Irish league clubs will not be found from that source.
In theory, the Football Trust is another potentially useful source. The reality, I fear, is another matter. The trust is empowered to fund ground improvements in both Great Britain and Northern Ireland. However, as the Football Trust money has traditionally been reserved almost exclusively for improvements demanded as a result of the Taylor report, soccer clubs from the Province have not fared well. One exception is our national football stadium, Windsor Park, which has received a reasonable amount because, I am given to understand, it is the sole soccer ground in Northern Ireland that must abide by the Taylor recommendations.
Until recently, the Football Trust also operated an improvement scheme for clubs in the Irish league, which allocated a number of grants for local projects. However, only yesterday I discovered that the trust no longer has any money available for clubs in Northern Ireland; indeed, I am informed that there appears to be no prospect of its having any money for our clubs in the foreseeable future.
I look forward to hearing from the Minister where on earth our clubs are supposed to turn for the necessary funding. We hear rumours that new legislation on the matter is being developed for consideration by the Northern Ireland Assembly. The Minister will be aware that I am somewhat pessimistic that the Assembly will ever be in a position to act on that or any other issue, given the situation that we now have at Stormont and in the Province in general. That being the case, will our local soccer clubs be left swinging in the wind, with the current state of uncertainty continuing indefinitely? I do not think that that would be allowed: owing to the safety regulations, they have to do something to correct matters.
As I explained, Coleraine football club does not appear to have much time left. The situation is made all the more serious by the fact that the Coleraine showgrounds, which belong to an agricultural society, are also home every July to the Northern Ireland Milk cup, which is the largest and most prestigious youth football tournament in Europe. That competition, which involves matches played in various parts of the Province and in the north-west generally, is a vital component of the Northern Ireland tourist industry. The Coleraine triangle is an important tourist area. In the past, the tournament has attracted to the area teams from as far afield as Brazil, Russia, China, Algeria, the United States and Australia. It is a very popular competition. That showpiece tournament also helps the Province to develop its own home-grown players and—most important, as I am sure the Minister will agree—to convey a positive image of itself across the world, even in the most difficult and trying of circumstances. If the showgrounds were to close for any reason, what would happen to the Milk cup? I am 1081 sure that the Minister will agree that the repercussions would deal a disastrous blow not only to football but to the image of the Province.
A number of other senior clubs have been watching developments in Coleraine and awaiting with trepidation their own health and safety improvement orders, and the arrival of officials on their doorstep. That is inevitable. I should explain that the Coleraine ground is not the worst football ground in Northern Ireland; it is generally recognised as one of the most finely equipped stadiums in the Irish league—even so, it is not up to standard.
A recent spate of crowd trouble at some high-profile matches in the Province has not helped the overall situation. We all deplore such activities, which do no one any good and do great damage. As well as highlighting the problems caused by the fact that segregation is needed at some grounds, those incidents put the spotlight on the stewarding of matches. Again, it appears that money is the problem.
§ Mr. Clifford Forsythe (South Antrim)Does my hon. Friend agree that the fact that some clubs are suggesting changes in the Irish league might cause even greater problems in future?
§ Mr. RossMy hon. Friend speaks with an intimate knowledge of such matters that I do not possess. He was a professional player for many years, and we can take it for granted that his comments are an accurate reflection of the matter and that he expresses a concern that is current in Northern Ireland football circles.
In the old days, the Royal Ulster Constabulary took the leading role in stewarding Irish league matches, but stewarding is now largely the responsibility of the clubs, and that causes them difficulties. In most cases, the individuals who carry out such tasks are unpaid volunteers, but a far more professional approach is needed for the more high-profile matches and that means employing qualified stewards. Many local clubs survive on gates of barely 100, so where are they supposed to find the money for that?
I sometimes have the impression that people in Northern Ireland prefer to play football than to watch it. That is always healthy. Every young boy in the Province sees himself as a future George Best, and I hope that there are a few such players out there, because that would do us all the world of good.
Funding is obviously required to train club stewards. I am informed that Coleraine football club has pledged that all its stewards will be trained to the required standard, and we all welcome that. The Government should acknowledge such a move by giving some form of subsidy, especially bearing in mind the long-term savings to the public purse through the reduction in policing costs at such matches.
To conclude, I leave the Minister with this thought and a fair length of time in which to reply. I know that he is a keen follower of Celtic football club in Glasgow and hon. Members might be aware that that club has a link with Coleraine—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Oh, yes. That link is Bertie Peacock, who wore the Celtic shirt with such flair in the 1950s. I recall Bertie telling me that he successfully captained the club for some time. He returned 1082 to the Coleraine showgrounds where he managed Coleraine to their sole Irish league championship two decades later. Just as a man of his ability was able to return home and give of his talents, I hope that the Government will be able to give the club some of the cash necessary to upgrade its facilities.
When the Minister next visits Parkhead—which in recent years has been rebuilt at no little cost—I want him to reflect on the fact that my constituents in Coleraine want the opportunity to watch their team in similar comfort. The crowds might not be as large, but there is at least as much enthusiasm. Football fans in Northern Ireland are rightly no less passionate about their local clubs than those in other parts of the United Kingdom. They also pay their taxes, and it appears that they buy more lottery tickets and fill in more pools coupons per head than people in any other part of the United Kingdom. Surely, they, too, should be allowed to watch their teams in a safe and pleasurable environment. For the good of a sport to which the Minister has given his attention and support for many years, I sincerely hope that he will be able to give us good news—if not today, in the near future—about the upgrading of the safety facilities.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. John McFall)I congratulate the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr. Ross) on securing this debate and, for the second time today from the Dispatch Box, I wish him and his right hon. and hon. Friends a very good St. Patrick's day. At the moment, I should be on my knees at the service at which Lord Molyneaux is giving the sermon. Although it might have been better for my soul if I had attended the service, there are urgent temporal matters to which we must attend.
I congratulate hon. Members who have turned up for the debate this morning. The hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr. Donaldson) was in the Chamber last night; his local club is the Distillery football club. The right hon. Member for Strangford (Mr. Taylor) has concerns about Ards football club. The hon. Member for East Antrim (Mr. Beggs) is concerned about Larne and Ballyclare football clubs and, I think, Carrick Rangers.
The hon. Member for South Antrim (Mr. Forsythe) was a distinguished footballer and is a personal friend of Bertie Peacock. I remember being taken to Parkhead when I was a tiny tot and seeing Bertie Peacock in his distinguished role as left-half for Celtic. He did himself and the club tremendous credit and he also did Northern Ireland great credit. I must not forget the hon. Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Walker), who is concerned with the Crusaders and Cliftonville clubs. We have a full turnout today and, if we wanted to, we could distinguish ourselves on the football ground as well as in the Chamber.
Let me turn to serious business. The hon. Member for East Londonderry is aware that I wrote to him on 4 January about issues arising from the comprehensive spending review and about safety at football grounds. I have received a number of representations from right hon. and hon. Members since then, and shall mention them later in my speech.
The Government acknowledge the important contribution made by sport to the enhancement of the quality of life of the people of Northern Ireland. As I said 1083 in last night's Adjournment debate, the Ulster victories in rugby's European cup and the staging, in two weeks' time, of the world cross-country championships, have brought the significance of sport to the fore in Northern Ireland. I am the first to accept that we have fallen behind and that something needs to be done. In the short time for which I have an influence in such matters, I want to ensure that sport is a live item on the agenda of the Northern Ireland Assembly so that the issue can be tackled, both nationally—the national stadium is extremely important—and locally. That would be positive and good, not only for sport, but for the whole community.
As the hon. Gentleman pointed out, another key consideration is safety at sports grounds. I give an assurance that the Government are fully aware of the need to strengthen health and safety at major sports venues in Northern Ireland. Those venues extend not only to soccer, but to rugby and Gaelic sports. We are aware of the potential of more welcoming grounds to attract increased numbers of spectators and, in so doing, to contribute to the well-being of sport and its development.
I was at Ravenhill for the European rugby semi-final; the official seating figure is 2,000, but temporary seating was installed so total attendance was about 20,000. After the game, we were told that there was to be a match at Lansdowne Road in Dublin, where the capacity is about 60,000. We thought that the ground might be half full but, as right hon. and hon. Members know, on the day, not only was the ground full, but attendance could easily have been doubled. Interest in sport is tremendous and a strong aspect of that interest is that it is cross-community. During the Adjournment debate, I mentioned that I drove from Dublin airport with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. We passed endless pubs from which people were overflowing into the streets. I was only sad that I did not have time to partake of any Guinness before I reached the ground. The enthusiasm on that day was tremendous and it has had a lasting impact on Northern Ireland.
I am able to report that, in recent months, my officials and I have met a number of interested groups and individuals in Northern Ireland, including an all-party delegation, the Irish Football Association and the Irish Football League to discuss concerns. I have also met representatives of the Football Trust, which has been the main conduit for financial support for safety improvements in Great Britain following the Taylor report on the Hillsborough stadium disaster in 1989. Those meetings have been most useful and we have tried to find a way of making progress in that important area.
I am pleased to be able to provide an update on safety at sports grounds in Northern Ireland. By way of background, I should explain that, following the strengthening of safety legislation in Great Britain in the wake of the Taylor report, the need for equivalent action in Northern Ireland was considered by an inter-departmental working group chaired by the Department of Education and drawn from the health and safety inspectorate of the Department of Economic Development, the Department of the Environment, the Northern Ireland Office, the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the Sports Council for Northern Ireland. The working group's final report has made several recommendations, including the need to introduce for Northern Ireland legislation, similar to that which exists in Great Britain, covering larger venues.
1084 The proposal for new legislation governing safety at sports grounds would affect not only 19 soccer grounds but one rugby ground and seven Gaelic football venues. A compliance cost assessment prepared as part of the report suggests that the cost of upgrading safety standards at Northern Ireland sports grounds in line with Great Britain would be about £20 million. The report envisaged an improvement programme phased over several years, which is again similar to the approach taken in England. It also envisaged that clubs would be required to contribute some 25 per cent. of the cost, but recognised that other funding, perhaps through the Football Trust, would be required.
The hon. Member for East Londonderry mentioned Coleraine football club in his constituency and the fact that it is facing closure. It is clearly important to keep such venues open. The short-term solution involves the Sports Council for Northern Ireland and the long-term solution involves the Football Trust, legislation and the Assembly. However, we do not need legislation to move on that problem initially. I hope that it will reassure hon. Members when I say that we are actively discussing the matter with the Football Trust.
Let me comment on Coleraine football club, to which the hon. Gentleman referred specifically. Local health and safety officers inspected the showgrounds, the home of the club, last year. Media reports suggested that £250,000 would be needed to put the ground in order and mentioned the threat of closure. We understand that, unofficially, the cost is likely to be less than £250,000. However, the club has not approached the Sports Council—which can provide limited help in the short term—for assistance. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman urges Coleraine to explore every funding avenue, including the Sports Council.
Although my ministerial colleagues and I have signed up, in principle, to the recommendations in the report, I emphasise that it will be for the new Northern Ireland Assembly to decide how matters should proceed. I realise that that presents uncertainties, which include the Assembly's acceptance of the proposals and the time scale within the Assembly's legislative programme for introducing any new legislation to strengthen safety requirements.
It is worth noting at this point that individual clubs have an obligation to meet the requirements of existing general health and safety legislation. The Sports Council for Northern Ireland makes available modest grants from the sports lottery fund for health and safety improvements at sports grounds. Although that is a useful contribution, Northern Ireland's share of the sports lottery fund is not sufficiently large to cope with the capital requirements needed to deal with the problem of safety at sports grounds. The Sports Council has begun a safety awareness and education programme involving the major spectator sports. That work is very important as a means of promoting a health and safety culture and encouraging club managers to face up to their obligations.
My overarching concern is that further progress should be made towards ensuring the safety and comfort of those who attend sporting events in Northern Ireland. Progress towards that end will encourage family support, and ultimately help clubs embed themselves more firmly in their local communities. We must remember the community as well as the sporting element. It is important to encourage the fertilisation of communities and 1085 eliminate the cross-community divide in the long term. Health and safety improvements at sporting grounds should accompany the implementation of the Belfast agreement so that we secure a new future for Northern Ireland. Sport should take its proper place in Northern Ireland's cultural life.
In light of safety concerns, we have been considering options for moving forward, which include the need to secure funds to support safety improvement costs. We believe that there is scope to fund a programme of safety work under existing legislation that could potentially provide an interim solution in advance of any enactment of new legislation for Northern Ireland. To help progress the development of an interim scheme, the Sports Council has commissioned a health and safety officer from Belfast city council to undertake a feasibility study, which will include a priority needs analysis. That exercise will provide a basis for establishing which grounds have the most pressing need, but it recognises that wide consultation will be required before final conclusions are reached.
As I said earlier, I recently met the chief executive of the Football Trust and its chairman, my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Mr. Pendry).
§ Mr. William RossThe Minister is well aware of the closure threat to grounds that do not conform to the necessary health and safety regulations within a short time. Is there some way of extending that period to give clubs time to meet those safety requirements?
§ Mr. McFallI am sure the hon. Gentleman agrees that all health and safety problems will not be solved overnight, but the Government are extremely sympathetic when it comes to ensuring that football grounds remain open. I cannot give any commitments from the Dispatch Box, because that is a matter for health and safety officers. However, the Government will make every effort in that regard.
1086 If we marry the short-term solutions that are available through the Sports Council and other areas with the longer-term element—the Government could talk to the Football Trust, legislation might be enacted and lottery funding awarded—progress might be achieved. We recognise that it would be folly to allow football grounds to close, because it would be difficult to generate support for the game again. We must foster the good will that exists in Northern Ireland soccer, and the Government will do everything possible to ensure that football grounds do not close. There is no automatic cut-off date, and the Government and communities will expend much effort considering that question.
As the hon. Gentleman knows, previous attempts to secure some of the Football Trust budget for improving sports grounds in Northern Ireland have received a sympathetic, but negative, response. That is not good enough. In my meeting with my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde and the chief executive of the Football Trust, I pointed out that Northern Ireland had been left out in the past and that it was now time to act. The Government and the Football Trust were very pleased with the meeting, which we viewed as a seminal event. It was previously believed that legislation was required and that the Assembly had to be up and running before any action could be taken. Some people are optimistic about what legislation will achieve—I know that the hon. Member for East Londonderry takes a pessimistic view. However, whether optimistic or pessimistic, all want to see early action. As a result of my meeting with the Football Trust, I can confirm that action will be taken soon that may be carried through to the Assembly.
I am delighted that the trust is now keen and willing, in principle, to support and become involved in an interim scheme for Northern Ireland. As I have said, the scheme includes soccer, the Gaelic Athletic Association and rugby grounds. An important element is that the Football Trust is looking for—
§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Lord)Order. We now come to the next debate.