§ Amendments made: No. 140, in page 141, line 21, at end insert—
| '1993 c. 8. | The Judicial Pensions and Retirement Act 1993. | In Schedule 6, paragraphs 37 and 38.'. |
§
No. 141, in page 141, line 33, column 3, at end insert—
'Section 2.
Section 3.'.
§ No. 142, in page 141, line 49, at end insert—
| '1997 c. 68. | The Special | Section 7(4). |
| Immigration Appeals Commission Act 1997. | In Schedule 2, paragraph 5.'. |
§ —[Mr. Mike Hall.]
§ Order for Third Reading read.
§ Motion made, and Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time.—[Mr. Mike Hall.]
§ The House divided: Ayes 310, Noes 41.
530| Division No. 212] | [12.2 am |
| AYES | |
| Adams, Mrs Irene (Paisley N) | Borrow, David |
| Ainger, Nick | Bradley, Keith (Withington) |
| Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) | Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin) |
| Alexander, Douglas | Bradshaw, Ben |
| Allen, Graham | Brinton, Mrs Helen |
| Anderson, Donald (Swansea E) | Brown, Rt Hon Nick (Newcastle E) |
| Anderson, Janet (Rossendale) | Brown, Russell (Dumfries) |
| Atherton, Ms Candy | Browne, Desmond |
| Atkins, Charlotte | Buck, Ms Karen |
| Barron, Kevin | Burden, Richard |
| Battle, John | Butler, Mrs Christine |
| Bayley, Hugh | Caborn, Rt Hon Richard |
| Beard, Nigel | Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth) |
| Begg, Miss Anne | Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) |
| Benn, Hilary (Leeds C) | Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) |
| Bennett, Andrew F | Campbell—Savours, Dale |
| Benton, Joe | Cann, Jamie |
| Berry, Roger | Caton, Martin |
| Best, Harold | Cawsey, Ian |
| Blackman, Liz | Chapman, Ben (Wirral S) |
| Blears, Ms Hazel | Chaytor, David |
| Blizzard, Bob | Church, Ms Judith |
| Blunkett, Rt Hon David | Clapham, Michael |
| Boateng, Paul | Clark, Rt Hon Dr David (S Shields) |
| Clark, Dr Lynda (Edinburgh Pentlands) | Heal, Mrs Sylvia |
| Healey, John | |
| Clark, Paul (Gillingham) | Henderson, Ivan (Harwich) |
| Clarke, Charles (Norwich S) | Hepburn, Stephen |
| Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) | Heppell, John |
| Clarke, Rt Hon Tom (Coatbridge) | Hesford, Stephen |
| Clarke, Tony (Northampton S) | Hewitt, Ms Patricia |
| Clelland, David | Hill, Keith |
| Coaker, Vernon | Hinchliffe, David |
| Coffey, Ms Ann | Hodge, Ms Margaret |
| Colman, Tony | Hoey, Kate |
| Connarty, Michael | Hood, Jimmy |
| Corbett, Robin | Hoon, Geoffrey |
| Corston, Ms Jean | Hope, Phil |
| Cousins, Jim | Hopkins, Kelvin |
| Cranston, Ross | Howarth, Alan (Newport E) |
| Crausby, David | Howarth, George (Knowsley N) |
| Cryer, Mrs Ann (Keighley) | Howells, Dr Kim |
| Cryer, John (Hornchurch) | Hoyle, Lindsay |
| Cummings, John | Hughes, Ms Beverley (Stretford) |
| Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr Jack (Copeland) | Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) |
| Humble, Mrs Joan | |
| Curtis—Thomas, Mrs Claire | Hurst, Alan |
| Dalyell, Tam | Iddon, Dr Brian |
| Darling, Rt Hon Alistair | Ingram, Rt Hon Adam |
| Darvill, Keith | Jackson, Ms Glenda (Hampstead) |
| Davey, Valerie (Bristol W) | Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough) |
| Davidson, Ian | Jamieson, David |
| Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) | Jenkins, Brian |
| Davies, Geraint (Croydon C) | Johnson, Alan (Hull W & Hessle) |
| Dawson, Hilton | Johnson, Miss Melanie (Welwyn Hatfield) |
| Dean, Mrs Janet | |
| Denham, John | Jones, Barry (Alyn & Deeside) |
| Dismore, Andrew | Jones, Mrs Fiona (Newark) |
| Dobbin, Jim | Jones, Helen (Warrington N) |
| Dobson, Rt Hon Frank | Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) |
| Donohoe, Brian H | Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S) |
| Doran, Frank | Jowell, Rt Hon Ms Tessa |
| Dowd, Jim | Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald |
| Drew, David | Keeble, Ms Sally |
| Eagle, Angela (Wallasey) | Keen, Alan (Feltham & Heston) |
| Eagle, Maria (L'pool Garston) | Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree) |
| Edwards, Huw | Khabra, Piara S |
| Efford, Clive | Kidney, David |
| Ellman, Mrs Louise | Kilfoyle, Peter |
| Ennis, Jeff | King, Andy (Rugby & Kenilworth) |
| Fisher, Mark | Kumar, Dr Ashok |
| Fitzpatrick, Jim | Ladyman, Dr Stephen |
| Fitzsimons, Lorna | Lawrence, Ms Jackie |
| Flint, Caroline | Laxton, Bob |
| Follett, Barbara | Lepper, David |
| Foster, Michael J (Worcester) | Leslie, Christopher |
| Foulkes, George | Levitt, Tom |
| Fyfe, Maria | Lewis, Ivan (Bury S) |
| Galloway, George | Linton, Martin |
| Gapes, Mike | Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C) |
| Gardiner, Barry | Lock, David |
| George, Bruce (Walsall S) | McAvoy, Thomas |
| Gibson, Dr Ian | McCabe, Steve |
| Gilroy, Mrs Linda | McCartney, Rt Hon Ian (Makerfield) |
| Godman, Dr Norman A | |
| Godsiff, Roger | McDonagh, Siobhain |
| Goggins, Paul | Macdonald, Calum |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | McGuire, Mrs Anne |
| Gordon, Mrs Eileen | McIsaac, Shona |
| Griffiths, Jane (Reading E) | Mackinlay, Andrew |
| Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) | McNulty, Tony |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Mactaggart, Fiona |
| Grocott, Bruce | McWalter, Tony |
| Grogan, John | McWilliam, John |
| Gunnell, John | Mallaber, Judy |
| Hain, Peter | Mandelson, Rt Hon Peter |
| Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale) | Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury) |
| Hall, Patrick (Bedford) | Marshall, David (Shettleston) |
| Hamilton, Fabian (Leeds NE) | Marshall—Andrews, Robert |
| Harman, Rt Hon Ms Harriet | Martlew, Eric |
| Meacher, Rt Hon Michael | Sheerman, Barry |
| Meale, Alan | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| Merron, Gillian | Short, Rt Hon Clare |
| Michael, Rt Hon Alun | Smith, Rt Hon Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley) | Smith, Angela (Basildon) |
| Milburn, Rt Hon Alan | Smith, Rt Hon Chris (Islington S) |
| Miller, Andrew | Smith, Jacqui (Redditch) |
| Moffatt, Laura | Smith, John (Glamorgan) |
| Moonie, Dr Lewis | Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) |
| Moran, Ms Margaret | Snape, Peter |
| Morley, Elliot | Soley, Clive |
| Morris, Ms Estelle (B'ham Yardley) | Southworth, Ms Helen |
| Morris, Rt Hon John (Aberavon) | Spellar, John |
| Mountford, Kali | Squire, Ms Rachel |
| Mowlam, Rt Hon Marjorie | Steinberg, Gerry |
| Mudie, George | Stewart, David (Inverness E) |
| Mullin, Chris | Stewart, Ian (Eccles) |
| Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck) | Stinchcombe, Paul |
| Murphy, Jim (Eastwood) | Stoate, Dr Howard |
| Murphy, Rt Hon Paul (Torfaen) | Stott, Roger |
| Naysmith, Dr Doug | Strang, Rt Hon Dr Gavin |
| Norris, Dan | Straw, Rt Hon Jack |
| O'Brien, Bill (Normanton) | Stringer, Graham |
| O'Brien, Mike (N Warks) | Stuart, Ms Gisela |
| Olner, Bill | Sutcliffe, Gerry |
| O'Neill, Martin | Taylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| Osborne, Ms Sandra | |
| Palmer, Dr Nick | Taylor, Ms Dari (Stockton S) |
| Pearson, Ian | Temple—Morris, Peter |
| Pendry, Tom | Thomas, Gareth (Clwyd W) |
| Pickthall, Colin | Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W) |
| Pike, Peter L | Timms, Stephen |
| Plaskitt, James | Tipping, Paddy |
| Pond, Chris | Touhig, Don |
| Pope, Greg | Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE) |
| Powell, Sir Raymond | Turner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown) |
| Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E) | Turner, Dr George (NW Norfolk) |
| Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) | Twigg, Derek (Halton) |
| Primarolo, Dawn | Twigg, Stephen (Enfield) |
| Prosser, Gwyn | Walley, Ms Joan |
| Purchase, Ken | Ward, Ms Claire |
| Quin, Rt Hon Ms Joyce | Wareing, Robert N |
| Quinn, Lawrie | Watts, David |
| Radice, Giles | White, Brian |
| Rammell, Bill | Whitehead, Dr Alan |
| Reed, Andrew (Loughborough) | Wicks, Malcolm |
| Robertson, Rt Hon George (Hamilton S) | Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Swansea W) |
| Roche, Mrs Barbara | Williams, Alan W (E Carmarthen) |
| Rooker, Jeff | Williams, Mrs Betty (Conwy) |
| Rooney, Terry | Wills, Michael |
| Rooney, Terry | Winnick, David |
| Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) | Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C) |
| Rowlands, Ted | Wise, Audrey |
| Ruane, Chris | Woolas, Phil |
| Ruddock, Joan | Worthington, Tony |
| Russell, Ms Christine (Chester) | Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth) |
| Ryan, Ms Joan | |
| Sarwar, Mohammad | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Savidge, Malcolm | Mr. David Hanson and |
| Sawfort, Phil | Mr. Clive Betts. |
| NOES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Chidgey, David |
| Allan, Richard | Corbyn, Jeremy |
| Baker, Norman | Cotter, Brian |
| Ballard, Jackie | Davey, Edward (Kingston) |
| Beith, Rt Hon A J | Fearn, Ronnie |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony (Chesterfield) | Gerrard, Neil |
| Brake, Tom | Harvey, Nick |
| Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) | Hughes, Simon (Southwark N) |
| Burnett, John | Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) |
| Burstow, Paul | Keetch, Paul |
| Cable, Dr Vincent | Kirkwood, Archy |
| Campbell, Rt Hon Menzies (NE Fife) | Livingstone, Ken |
| Livsey, Richard |
| Llwyd, Elfyn | Smith, Sir Robert (W Ab'd'ns) |
| McDonnell, John | Stunell, Andrew |
| Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute) | Tonge, Dr Jenny |
| Moore, Michael | Tyler, Paul |
| Oaten, Mark | Webb, Steve |
| Öpik, Lembit | Willis, Phil |
| Rendel, David | |
| Russell, Bob (Colchester) | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Sanders, Adrian | Dr. Evan Harris and |
| Simpson, Alan (Nottingham S) | Mr. Don Foster. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Bill read the Third time, and passed.
§ Mr. HoggOn a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. May I raise with you the consequences of the guillotine motion that has been applied? You will appreciate that there remain outstanding eight groups of amendments; the last group of amendments, relating to the code of practice, were debated in about one minute; moreover, there was no debate on Third Reading. The cause of all that was the guillotine motion. The result is that a substantial part of the Bill has not been debated on Report. I recognise that you are bound by the guillotine motion and that I cannot complain about that. However, I can point out—and I do point out—that one of the reasons why time was eroded was that, yesterday, a statement on the London underground was made by the Deputy Prime Minister—
Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. The right hon. and learned Gentleman is an experienced Member of Parliament and I think that he recognises that the answer to his point of order lies in what he has already said. The Chair is indeed bound by the terms of yesterday's guillotine motion, as is the House. What he has said so far is a matter of comment and debate, which should have been said at the time of the guillotine motion. It is not a matter for me.
§ Mr. HoggI am coming to my substantive point. I was laying the background. One reason why the debate has been truncated tonight is the statement that the Deputy Prime Minister made yesterday about the London underground. The practice is for a Minister to inform the Speaker of his intention to make a statement. The consent of the Speaker is not required, even though the Minister always begins with the phrase, "With permission, Madam Speaker". However, it is within the discretion of the Speaker to seek to dissuade the Minister. Furthermore, it is certainly within the discretion of the Speaker to ensure that the question and answer session that follows is kept very short. My point of order is that when there is a guillotine motion the Speaker should seek to ensure that there is not—
Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. The right hon. and learned Gentleman should resume his seat when I have risen to my feet. He is getting dangerously close to criticising the decision of the Chair. If there was a moment to do that it was yesterday, not now.
Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. I think that I have heard sufficient in two bursts from the right hon. and learned Gentleman to know that this is not a matter on which I can rule now. It relates to the decision of the Chair that 531 was taken yesterday. If the right hon. and learned Gentleman wishes to pursue that matter, it will have to be on a substantive motion criticising the Chair.
§ Mr. HoggFurther to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am not in any way criticising the Speaker. I am bringing a point to your attention so that you can have an opportunity to discuss it with Madam Speaker. When there is a guillotine motion that constrains debate, the Speaker should seek to consider whether—
Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. There is little that I can add to the point of order that the right hon. and learned Gentleman is seeking to make, because he is implicitly criticising the decision taken by the Chair yesterday. The Speaker must be presumed to be aware of all the relevant matters. If an hon. Member wishes later to challenge a decision taken by the Speaker, it must be done on a substantive motion.
§ Miss WiddecombeOn a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I acknowledge that the Government went to considerable lengths this evening to ensure that we had a vote on amendment No. 9, but that was achieved only by sacrificing any debate on an important subject. There were other important issues to be debated on Report, as well as a tranche of other matters that could have been addressed on Third Reading but were not scheduled for debate on Report. Those subjects were guillotined out of debate not as a result of any lack of progress on the Immigration and Asylum Bill, which was conducted in an exemplary manner, but because of a perceived lack of progress on another Bill. As the guardian of Back-Bench rights and the rights of debate, does the Chair have a view, or will you be taking a view, on the use of a guillotine to curtail not the debate in question, but a separate debate?
Mr. Deputy SpeakerThe question whether there is a guillotine and the terms of it are not a matter for the Chair. It is a matter for debate on the substantive motion put down by the Government and the decision of the House on it.