HC Deb 26 July 1999 vol 336 cc53-6

Lords amendment: No. 280, in page 60, line 8, at end insert—

("Separate workplace ballots

("Separate workplace ballots . The following shall be substituted for section 228 (separate workplace ballots)—

"Separate workplace ballots.

228.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), this section applies if the members entitled to vote in a ballot by virtue of section 227 do not all have the same workplace.

(2) This section does not apply if the union reasonably believes that all those members have the same workplace.

(3) Subject to section 228A, a separate ballot shall be held for each workplace; and entitlement to vote in each ballot shall be accorded equally to, and restricted to, members of the union who—

  1. (a) are entitled to vote by virtue of section 227, and
  2. (b) have that workplace.

(4) In this section and section 228A "workplace" in relation to a person who is employed means—

  1. if the person works at or from a single set of premises, those premises, and
  2. in any other case, the premises with which the person's employment has the closest connection.

Separate workplaces: single and aggregate ballots.

228A.—(1) Where section 228(3) would require separate ballots to be held for each workplace, a ballot may be held in place of some or all of the separate ballots if one of subsections (2) to (4) is satisfied in relation to it.

(2) This subsection is satisfied in relation to a ballot if the workplace of each member entitled to vote in the ballot is the workplace of at least one member of the union who is affected by the dispute.

(3) This subsection is satisfied in relation to a ballot if entitlement to vote is accorded to, and limited to, all the members of the union who—

  1. (a) according to the union's reasonable belief have an occupation of a particular kind or have any of a number of particular kinds of occupation, and
  2. (b) are employed by a particular employer, or by any of a number of particular employers, with whom the union is in dispute.

(4) This subsection is satisfied in relation to a ballot if entitlement to vote is accorded to, and limited to, all the members of the union who are employed by a particular employer, or by any of a number of particular employers, with whom the union is in dispute.

(5) For the purposes of subsection (2) the following are members of the union affected by a dispute—

  1. (a) if the dispute relates (wholly or partly) to a decision which the union reasonably believes the employer has made or will make concerning a matter specified in subsection (1)(a), (b) or (c) of section 244 (meaning of "trade dispute"), members whom the decision directly affects,
  2. (b) if the dispute relates (wholly or partly) to a matter specified in subsection (1)(d) of that section, members whom the matter directly affects,
  3. (c) if the dispute relates (wholly or partly) to a matter specified in subsection (1)(e) of that section, persons whose membership or non-membership is in dispute,
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  4. (d) if the dispute relates (wholly or partly) to a matter specified in subsection (1)(f) of that section, officials of the union who have used or would use the facilities concerned in the dispute." ")

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.—[Mr. Ian McCartney.]

Mr. Deputy Speaker

With this, it will be convenient to discuss Lords amendments Nos. 281 to 283.

Mr. Nicholas Winterton

I am most interested that more than 100 amendments from the other place have been agreed to by the House. Does that not demonstrate the most outstanding performance by the House of Lords in constructively amending this Bill? The Government of the day, who are hostile to the role of the House of Lords, have found it possible to agree to dozens and dozens of amendments proposed in the upper House.

I draw this to the House's attention to show my support for the House of Lords and the valuable job that it does.

Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst)

rose—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. I must inform the hon. Gentleman that he cannot use amendment No. 280 as a means of supporting the other place. I was hoping that the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Mr. Forth) would not do so, either.

Mr. Forth

I was about to endorse amendment No. 280 and to say that we should be grateful to the other place for deliberating as it has on this and many other amendments.

Mrs. Browning

If my right hon. Friend looks at the Bill, he will see that, since it left this place, it has been amended substantially by the other place, which is why there are so many amendments on the amendment paper.

Mr. Forth

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. We should pay tribute to the quality of the work that has been done by the other place. It is reflected in amendment No. 280 and in many other amendments—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. The right hon. Gentleman mentioned many other amendments. He can discuss only the amendments in the group. This is not an opportunity for a general debate on the other place; it is specifically on the amendment before us, which covers trade union ballots.

Mr. Forth

Indeed, Mr. Deputy Speaker. On the subject of ballots, above any other, the fascinating thing is that the other place should have taken such a view and that the Government should be asking this House to agree with it. That, in itself, is quite remarkable. The Government's original criticism of the other place was that it was not supported by a balloting procedure, yet here we have the other place amending legislation in the whole area of ballots. I shall not digress, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but it so happens that I support the concept of an elected upper House, which would involve ballots.

Mr. Edward Leigh (Gainsborough)

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. I have given a ruling. The make-up of the other place has nothing to do with the amendment before us. It might be helpful to the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst if he thinks of these as normal amendments. He gets confused only if he starts dealing with the other place. I call Mr. Forth.

Mr. Forth

I give way to my hon. Friend.

Mr. Leigh

I wanted to remind my right hon. Friend that we are trying to take forward a process, with regard to trade unions, that furthers democracy. We are talking about ballots. Would it not be absurd if, in a trade union, there were only two voters for a particular post, so that, if one died, the remaining voter had a unique opportunity to elect the remaining member? If there were only three members and three voters, and one died, it would be possible to come to an agreement. That is precisely what is happening in the other place. If one of the two remaining Labour hereditary peers dies—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman is totally out of order. If the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst continues down this line, I shall have to ask him to resume his seat, because he is not keeping within the terms of the amendment before us.

Mr. Forth

I wholeheartedly endorse the excellent work done by the other place and the contribution that it has made in the context of this amendment. I find it heartening that it is now being supported by the Government. We should take note of that, and I hope that the House will wish to record its satisfaction with the contribution that the other place has made to the quality of this legislation.

Lords amendment agreed to.

Lords amendments Nos. 281 to 322, No. 323 and Government amendment (c) thereto, and Nos. 324 to 331 agreed to.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

We now come to the motion on the Reasons Committee.

Mr. Forth

I recall that this motion is debatable. We have debated it on previous occasions, and I think it appropriate to take this opportunity to explore its implications. I say that particularly in the context of a motion that the House considered earlier, and on which, in fact, it divided.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. Under the guillotine, the motion is not debatable; I must put the Question forthwith.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to certain of their amendments to the Bill: Mrs. Angela Browning, Mr. Stephen Day, Mr. Frank Doran, Mr. Ian McCartney and Mr. Greg Pope; Three to be the quorum of the Committee.—[Mr. Hill.]

To withdraw immediately.

Reasons for disagreeing to certain Lords amendments reported, and agreed to; to be communicated to the Lords.