HC Deb 12 July 1999 vol 335 cc18-20
15. Mr. Bill Rammell (Harlow)

What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Health on detention orders relating to people with severe personality disorders. [89225]

The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. Paul Boateng)

The statement by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department to the House on 15 February 1999, Official Report, columns 601–03, set out our proposals to introduce powers of indeterminate detention for dangerously severely personality disordered individuals. The development of this policy has required joint working at all levels between the Home Office and the Department of Health—including extensive discussions between Ministers from both Departments.

We shall publish the consultation paper on the management of such persons shortly.

Mr. Rammell

I thank my hon. Friend for that response. Does he agree that it is illogical that doctors can detain people with treatable severe personality disorders while members of a much more dangerous group, those with untreatable severe personality disorders, cannot be detained in that way and must be released unsupervised into the community? Does that not underline the need for co-operation and action between the respective Departments? Can my hon. Friend assure me and the House that the discussion that is taking place will lead to greater security for children and families?

Mr. Boateng

I can give my hon. Friend that categoric assurance. It is vital that a multi-disciplinary approach is taken to that group of highly dangerous individuals. A determination to protect the public must be at the heart of all that we do.

Miss Julie Kirkbride (Bromsgrove)

I welcome very much what the Minister has said and the discussions that are taking place but, as I understand it, legislation will be needed to require people with severe untreatable personality disorders to be detained. That is obviously a priority. When will legislation be brought before the House to make that a priority? It is what the public want—perhaps more than his hunting Bill.

Mr. Boateng

The hon. Lady will appreciate that it is not for me to anticipate the Queen's Speech, but she will also know that we are showing all expedition in relation to that group of dangerous individuals. She will know of the £700 million that we are already investing to improve services for the mentally ill, and of the extensive action that the Government have taken in the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 to put public protection at the heart of the treatment of those who present a danger to the public. She can be sure, therefore, that we shall take this matter forward at an early date.

Ms Bridget Prentice (Lewisham, East)

May I suggest to my hon. Friend that, when he is consulting the Department of Health on this issue, he might take a look at my ten-minute rule Bill, the Restraining and Protection Orders Bill, which covered people who have severe personality disorders? Will he look at that very carefully, because health authorities in particular may have a role to play in ensuring that people who have such severe personality disorders are taken to a place of safety— especially if such people put themselves forward to the health authority because they know that they are at risk of being a danger to the rest of society?

Mr. Boateng

My hon. Friend is to be congratulated on bringing this matter to the attention of the House. She will recognise, however, that one of the problems is that psychiatrists say that they can do nothing for those who come within this group under mental health legislation. Similarly, those in the group may not yet have committed a criminal offence, although they almost certainly will do so. Therefore, we have to find a third way to put the public's protection at the heart of the treatment of this group of individuals.