Points of Order (Hansard, 7 July 1999)

§ Mr. Ted Rowlands (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. May I raise with you the issue that arose in Welsh questions today, especially on Question 3 from my hon. Friend the Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Ms Lawrence). The question was when the Secretary of State for Wales next intended to meet the Assembly Secretary responsible for agriculture. I did not quite catch all of my right hon. Friend's reply, but it appeared that he said that it was a matter for the Assembly. You subsequently intervened and said that we therefore could not continue to question him.
It is patently not a matter for the Assembly what action the Secretary of State for Wales in this House does or does not take. It is surely open to my right hon. Friend as Secretary of State for Wales to seek a meeting of any kind. As he is accountable to this House, we are entitled to ask him about such meetings.
The question was put to the Table Office and approved. I hope that you will give us a ruling that a question such as Question 3 will be perfectly in order in future Welsh Question Times and that future Welsh Secretaries of State can come to this House and answer questions.

§ Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire)
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
I think that the hon. Gentleman wishes to make a similar point of order.

§ Sir Patrick Cormack
We realise that, after 1 July, with devolution, we are entering uncharted waters. We are grateful to you for the guidance that you gave the House this afternoon, but, as the Welsh Assembly does not have primary legislative or tax-raising powers, Members of this House will obviously wish to ask questions and hold Ministers properly to account. I wonder whether you would be kind enough to give some thought to this matter, and to give some guidance to the Table Office so that inappropriate questions are not allowed on the Order Paper and so that all those that do appear on the Order Paper can be pursued.

§ Mr. Dafydd Wigley (Caernarfon)
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. I come to this matter as a Member of the National Assembly as well, and questions have arisen as to what competence lies where. Will you discuss the implications of this matter informally with representatives of the parties—and, perhaps, with the usual channels—so that we can have some convention, whereby we know where responsibility lies?

§ Mr. Dale Campbell-Savours (Workington)
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. If money is voted by Parliament, on what basis can there be any restriction on asking a Secretary of State questions on the use of those moneys?

§ Madam Speaker
The hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Mr. Rowlands) asked for a ruling, and I am always prepared to give a ruling. On more than one occasion today, I heard a Minister of the Crown say at the Dispatch Box that, as of 1 July, matters had been 1046 devolved; therefore, it was not possible for the House to trespass on matters that are the responsibility of the Welsh Assembly. Of course there are bound to be some problems when such changes are being made. I thought that I had had proper discussions with the Department concerned, and with the Table Office. Obviously, we have a long way to go to bring about improvements. However, the House can be sure that I shall use my best endeavours to see that the matters are dealt with efficiently and properly at Question Time in future.

§ Mr. Campbell-Savours
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. Could I have a written, considered response to the question I asked of you—namely, the question of moneys voted by Parliament?

§ Madam Speaker
Certainly. I shall look at the precise wording of the hon. Gentleman's question and see that he gets a written response.

§ Mr. Rowlands
I am grateful for your initial response, Madam Speaker. However, my point is narrow and specific. Question 3 was about whether the Secretary of State for Wales would seek a meeting with X, Y or Z. That is a matter for the Secretary of State for Wales, who must be accountable and answerable to this House. I should have thought it possible for us to say that such a question was in order because it related directly to the activities of the Secretary of State, who is answerable to this House.

§ Madam Speaker
I understand, and am sympathetic to, the hon. Gentleman's point, but I repeat what I said earlier. If a Minister of the Crown tells the House that an issue has been devolved, it is for that Minister of the Crown to know whether it is devolved or not. I cannot intervene on that. I am trying to be helpful, and I will look at the matter to see that we run smoothly in future.

§ Dr. Evan Harris (Oxford, West and Abingdon)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. A few moments ago, the Prime Minister, in answer to my right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith), said that the number of junior doctors working more than 56 hours had fallen to 4,800, but we had established that the figure was 8,500—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. Points of order are matters with which I can deal. I am not a statistician—I do not know the figures. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to correct the Prime Minister, he must do so by means of the Order Paper and other questions, and not by means of a point of order.

§ Dr. Harris
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
Is there a point of order for me as Speaker?

§ Dr. Harris
Yes.

§ Madam Speaker
Then I shall hear it.

§ Dr. Harris
What is the procedure for asking the Prime Minister to come back and reassure the House that if he has inadvertently misled—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I thought that I had just explained that if the hon. Gentleman feels that the answer 1047 was not full enough or informative enough—or even if he feels that it might have been incorrect—there is an Order Paper by which he can put written or oral questions to the Prime Minister, or to the Minister with that portfolio. That is the way to proceed.

§ Sir Patrick Cormack
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am grateful for your response to the points of order on Welsh Questions. Could you please copy to those involved the letter that you send to the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours), and place a copy in the Library?

§ Madam Speaker
Certainly.