§ 14. Dr. Julian Lewis (New Forest, East)When he expects to end the practice of holding 15 and 16-year-olds in adult prisons. [64359]
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. George Howarth)I hope that we can all agree that juveniles in custody on remand or under sentence should be held in facilities appropriate to their needs. The Government intend to start work during 1999 to establish a distinct estate within the Prison Service for 15-to-17-year-old boys remanded or sentenced to custody, and to improve the care and regimes delivered within it. An assessment is already under way of the needs of young women under the age of 18.
§ Dr. LewisDoes the Minister recall that when his party was in opposition, its shadow Home Affairs team, led by our present Prime Minister, repeatedly castigated as inadequate the Conservative programme for providing no fewer than 170 secure local authority places, and that the present Prime Minister said that the problem could be solved "without delay"? Does the Minister realise that the admission from his Department, in response to repeated questioning from my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Mr. Clappison), that the present Government have provided only six extra places since they came into office shows that the Labour party says one thing in opposition and produces a heck of a lot less in government?
§ Mr. HowarthNo. The hon. Gentleman should take a little more time to reflect on what the Government whom he supported achieved over 18 years. In just 20 short months we have started to deal with a problem that has 564 been festering for many years. The hon. Gentleman should judge us on what we achieve over the term of this Government. At the end of that period, proper arrangements will be in place to deal with juvenile offenders in a way that would not have entered the imagination of our predecessors, the Government whom the hon. Gentleman supported. He should be ashamed of their record. We are putting right the wrongs that they perpetrated.
§ Mr. James Clappison (Hertsmere)Is not the Minister overlooking the words of the Prime Minister when he was shadow Home Affairs spokesman, when he said that the places in local authority secure accommodation could be provided "without delay", and when he said that
This country does not want to wait years before the problem is dealt with"?—[Official Report, 11 January 1994; Vol. 235, c. 40.]The Labour Government have provided only six places. Are not the Government welshing on what they said in opposition, when they undertook to deal with the matter by providing more places in local authority secure accommodation? Now they say that the 15 and 16-year-olds should be held in part of the prison estate. Are they not reneging on commitments given by the Prime Minister in opposition?
§ Mr. HowarthI find that outrageous. The hon. Gentleman was a Minister in the previous Government and they did nothing about the growing problem of how to deal with juveniles. Conservative Members criticise our spending plans, and when we decide to do something about problems by spending money on them they criticise us for doing so. They should hang their heads in shame for the mess that they made of dealing with juvenile crime and the juvenile criminal justice system. For the hon. Gentleman to lecture the Government from the Dispatch Box is laughable.