Local Government Finance

HC Deb 17 November 1998 vol 319 cc734-7

3. Mr. James Gray (North Wiltshire)

What representations he has received from the Local Government Association regarding the local government finance settlement for 1999–2000. [58606]

The Minister for Local Government and Housing (Ms Hilary Armstrong)

The Local Government Association and special interest groups within it have made a number of representations during discussions on next year's financial settlement for local government.

Mr. Gray

I am sure that those groups were grateful to the Minister for her valuable time. Will she now find time to meet a delegation from Wiltshire county council, which will explain to her the consequences of last year's settlement and the £100 million that her Government robbed from shire counties? Sparsity and rural poverty in Wiltshire make it one of the eight worst-funded counties in England. That is in stark contrast to the Prime Minister's constituency, which did conspicuously well in last year's settlement. Will the Minister explain why that was so?

Ms Armstrong

The hon. Gentleman forgets that the Prime Minister represents a rural constituency, too. At the request of the LGA, I have met each of the groupings in the LGA, including the county councils network. The hon. Gentleman knows from his previous position, before he became a Member of Parliament, that the period for representations on individual budgets comes once the settlement has been announced. If Wiltshire wants to make representations, we will consider them. Following the actions on which I suspect the hon. Gentleman had some influence under the previous Government, we want to make the settlement much fairer than it was when we took office. The hon. Gentleman may be able to give us lessons on how to make sure that some councils get more money than others.

Mr. Peter L. Pike (Burnley)

I accept that the Government's objective is to make the distribution far fairer, but alterations to area cost adjustments and standard spending assessments while the overall limit remains fixed will only please some people and upset others. Will my hon. Friend recognise the plight of councils such as Burnley, which have had their capping level frozen for a number of years? Those are a small group of authorities with a particular problem, which I hope the Government will try to correct.

Ms Armstrong

My hon. Friend is honest when he admits that, when one redistributes money, some gain and some lose, and that one can never please everybody all the time. The position of the authorities that he represents has been put to me. I have met that grouping. My hon. Friend will also know that the Deputy Prime Minister made it clear, following the comprehensive spending review, that there will be no pre-announced capping limits this year.

Mrs. Virginia Bottomley (South-West Surrey)

Further to the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire (Mr. Gray) about the vindictive attack on some of the shire counties, is the Minister aware that there is a sub-group of local authorities that have both rural and urban characteristics—the town and country issues group? This is the third time that I have raised their plight with her in the House. Could it be third time lucky? If she has not already done so, will she agree to meet that group?

Ms Armstrong

The House is no doubt becoming aware that, if I saw every delegation before the settlement was announced, we would not have time to do the work necessary to deliver the settlement. We saw every delegation that asked to see us after the last settlement. Since then, I have met the LGA in partnership meetings and I have met the groupings recommended to us by the LGA. I have read and listened to the arguments of the town and country issues group on many occasions. I utterly reject any suggestion of vindictive treatment of shire counties last year. Far from it—we are delivering a much fairer settlement than the right hon. Lady's Government ever managed to do.

Mr. Bill O'Brien (Normanton)

The majority of local government appreciates the opportunity to meet my hon. Friend and discuss matters before the SSA is settled. Will she ensure that the planned 15 per cent. increase in SSAs over the next three years provides an opportunity to distribute resources more fairly in local government, without any authority losing money? Will she assure the House and the country that she will live up to the promise to make the settlement fairer, so that authorities such as mine receive a fairer deal over the next three years?

Ms Armstrong

We have made it clear that we are seeking to move to a much fairer settlement. There are difficult issues on the table this year. I hope that, when the statement is made to the House in two or three weeks' time, the House will recognise that the Government have listened to the representations made to them and have taken steps towards establishing fairness. The Government are putting substantial new money into local government over the next three years as a result of the comprehensive spending review. That is a demonstration of our commitment to local government and our support for the public services that it delivers.

Jackie Ballard (Taunton)

I am sure that the Minister is aware that for many years local authorities, such as Somerset county council, have prioritised spending on education and social services at the expense both of other vital services and of non-statutory services. When can local government expect the Government to allow it the financial freedom to meet the needs and priorities of its local citizens?

Ms Armstrong

The hon. Lady seems to be asking for every service to have priority, but the very nature of priority is that one prioritises. The Government have a manifesto commitment to prioritise health and education. We have made it clear through the comprehensive spending review that we will lift crude and universal capping, but we have also made it clear that we regard local government as an important part of the public sector and, therefore, of the overall public purse.

Mrs. Gillian Shephard (South-West Norfolk)

Is the Minister aware of the findings of the recent independent report produced for the county councils network that school transport costs more per pupil in rural areas than in urban areas?

Ms Armstrong

As I have said, I have received representations from the county councils network. I have met its representatives and we shall take their representations into account when reaching decisions on the settlement.

Mrs. Shephard

If the hon. Lady agrees with those findings, does she accept that the Government's decision—it was her Government's decision—to switch £100 million away from rural areas in this year's settlement was wrong? Does she also accept that boasting, as she has often done, of making a £50 million rural transport grant to the very areas that she has already robbed of £100 million, is not only naive but ludicrous?

Ms Armstrong

The right hon. Lady does not seem to learn from one Question Time to another. I made it absolutely clear at the previous Question Time that the her figures are wrong. If one takes the amount of money going into those rural areas along with that going to the shire districts and counties, one sees that there was nothing like a switch of £100 million. The right hon. Lady knows that, but she chooses to ignore it. That is politics, and I accept that. But the right hon. Lady also chooses to denigrate the £150 million that will go into rural bus services during the next three years. I do not wonder that she tries to do that, because the Conservative Government, of which she was a member, ensured that some rural areas simply had no buses. I hope that she is proud of her actions.