HC Deb 18 May 1998 vol 312 cc589-92
12. Mr. Brian Jenkins (Tamworth)

What contribution his Department is making to the Government's new deal initiative. [41305]

14. Mr. Lawrie Quinn (Scarborough and Whitby)

What contribution his Department is making to the Government's new deal initiative. [41309]

The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. George Robertson)

My Department is committed to and is continuing to play a full part in contributing to the new deal. The armed forces are working closely with the new deal personal advisers and the further education colleges to identify, at the gateway stage, what self-development is required to make young people more confident and self-reliant. We are also committed to offering new deal opportunities whenever civilian recruitment campaigns are run.

Mr. Jenkins

I thank my right hon. Friend for that full answer. Will he point out the many opportunities available to our young people in the services and also give me, the House, young people and, more important, our armed forces, an assurance that every young person allocated a place in the scheme will be a volunteer and that no force whatever will be used? Will he oppose the suggestion in one of the Sunday papers that the scheme is a back-door way to national service?

Mr. Robertson

I can give my hon. Friend an absolute assurance that the armed forces are and will remain volunteer organisations. There is no question of utilising the new deal as a method of press-ganging people into the armed forces.

The three armed forces offer worthwhile, satisfying and profoundly rewarding careers for young people. If I had been answering Question No.1, I should have pointed out that we have turned a corner in the recruiting position in the British Army and are at last making inroads into the shortfall. My hon. Friend the Minister for the Armed Forces, who is in the lead on the matter, has done a superb job in the past 12 months. Young people are coming to our armed forces and we hope that, through the brief taster experiences under the new deal, which is opening new vistas for thousands of young people who for 18 years were denied hope or vision for the future, their eyes will be opened to the possibilities of a good career serving their country.

Mr. Quinn

Will my right hon. Friend please say whether suppliers and contractors who support our armed forces and his Department have proposals to help with the new deal and to encourage young people to get into the broader side of the defence industry?

Mr. Robertson

We always hope that Ministry of Defence suppliers will be among those involved in best practice in every field. We shall encourage those in the defence industry to participate in what is an enriching experience, not only for young people, but for companies and for the country. Many people forget that the defence industry employs 440,000 people at the cutting edge of technology and of success for the nation. Companies that are so successful should clearly recognise the benefits of getting young people through their doors by way of the new deal.

Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate)

May I press on the Secretary of State the fact that the armed forces would be able to take part in the new deal initiative with a great deal more certainty if they had the results of the strategic defence review to hand? The Ministry of Defence's proposals on, for example, elements such as the Royal Armoured Corps are an open secret among its members, as is virtually the rest of the package that has gone forward to the Government. As the Treasury was involved in the teams that were assessing the MOD's strategic defence review inside the MOD when it was going on, what is the delay? Members of the armed forces have every reason to suspect that the package will be unpicked by the Treasury. He will understand that, if it is unpicked in one degree, the whole package will begin to fall apart.

Mr. Robertson

The hon. Gentleman was inside the MOD acting as an adviser to Ministers and, by gosh, saw precisely what was happening in there. There were not Treasury people inside the MOD; there were MOD people inside the Treasury and they were being told how much to cut. We are carrying out a policy-led review based on the strategic interests of this country. Whatever the hon. Gentleman thinks he has seen in the leaks, I can assure him that he has not seen the definitive outcome of the report. When he does, he will see something that is radical and sensible and designed to do what the Conservative Government never had the courage or guts to do: look at the future, not the past, and reconfigure our forces radically. When the Government are ready to announce the report, it and the White Paper will be issued.

Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby)

Does the Secretary of State agree that the purpose of the armed forces is the defence of the realm, and that they have been doing a good job of that in the recent past? While we all wish the recruiting initiative through new deal well, will he ensure that standards are maintained so that the armed forces do not suffer as a result of having to take poor quality recruits to make the new deal successful? Did he see the report in yesterday's newspapers that the paras, for one, are dropping their standards so that they can up their recruiting figures, the result of which is a reduction in effectiveness?

Mr. Robertson

I saw the report and I thought that it was utter nonsense. It was an insult to the fine people in that regiment, who do not deserve such glib anecdotes being thrown at them. Even if it were true, it could hardly reflect the experience of simply one 12-month period. The attack, if that is what it was, is not just on the Government but on the previous Minister for the Armed Forces. I do not think that such an accusation would stick on the Government or on the Opposition. The professionalism of the armed forces will be maintained, although we may find other ways to get there.

Speaking of standards, today's Evening Standard contains an article by Mr. Christopher Hudson. It states: the reality is quite different. The British Army remains the single most universally admired of all British institutions. It possesses a worldwide reputation for discipline and professionalism. From the Falklands War to their peacekeeping role in Bosnia, our armed services have acquitted themselves with distinction. That is absolutely right, although Mr. Hudson may have other prescriptions with which I do not agree. We will maintain it as it is.

Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow)

New deal or not, does it help young men to join the armed forces when they reflect on how Guardsman Fisher and Guardsman Wright have been treated?

Mr. Robertson

My hon. Friend the Minister for the Armed Forces met representatives of the campaign for the two guardsmen whom my hon. Friend mentions and has mentioned in the past. The matter is not for the Ministry of Defence; the decision is in the hands of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I know that she is well aware of the sentiments in the country, and my hon. Friend the Minister for the Armed Forces will apprise her of his meeting last week. It is for her to make the decision within the long-established framework.

Dr. Julian Lewis (New Forest, East)

Before the Secretary of State gets too carried away with the overblown hoo-hah of his own rhetoric, will he reflect on the fact that the person who criticised the falling standards for recruitment to the Parachute Regiment was the head of the regiment's recruiting team? As newspaper articles have been quoted, let us see how the Secretary of State responds to what that man said. He said: nearly half the soldiers now accepted into the Parachute Regiment, which prides itself on fitness, would have been failed five years ago. The Army, facing a shortage of 5,000 recruits, was letting people slip through the net 'just to make up the numbers'". Is the Secretary of State proud of a development that drives the head of a recruiting team to resign from the Army to spread that message?

Mr. Robertson

No, and I do not accept what he says. It is not borne out by the facts and it is an insult to those who serve in the regiment. I repeat that, even if it were true, the change could not simply have taken place over the past 12 months. Neither the previous Government, and certainly not this one, would lower the standards for those who are expected to serve and fight in Her Majesty's armed forces. Professionalism will be maintained, and that is recognised wherever our soldiers, sailors and air men and women are in the field of conflict. I have seen them in Bosnia, on HMS Invincible and on RAF stations in this country and abroad. Those people are among the finest and fittest in armed forces in any part of the world, and that standard will be maintained.