§ 9. Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome)How many licences have been granted for the export of arms to Indonesia in the current year to date. [40961]
§ The Minister for Small Firms, Trade and Industry (Mrs. Barbara Roche)Between 1 January and 3 April 1998, 28 individual licences were issued covering the export to Indonesia of goods that are listed in part III of schedule 1 to the Export of Goods (Control) Order 1994. The list is much broader in scope than just arms, and includes a wide range of equipment. All the applications for the 28 licences were circulated for advice to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and to the Ministry of Defence, and considered under the criteria that were announced last July by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary.
§ Mr. HeathWhy are we in the business of selling arms to a regime that is bankrupt both politically and economically? Is the Minister not concerned when she sees democratic demonstrations in Jakarta being put down by British-made water cannon firing British-supplied nerve gas? What price an ethical foreign policy?
§ Mrs. RocheThe Government are extremely concerned by the current situation and are monitoring it very closely. The hon. Gentleman will also want to know that, since coming to power, we have refused licence applications for Indonesia covering sniper rifles and other firearms, spare parts for firearms, military vehicles and a military simulator. As I have said, we are monitoring the situation very carefully and we are looking at reports that water cannon, supplied from the UK under licences that were issued by the previous Government, have been used.
§ Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley)Will my hon. Friend confirm that Indonesia is covered by export credit guarantees of more than £1 billion and that £800 million of that is for military exports? Would it not be better if we had a debate in Parliament about whether arms should be exported to sensitive countries, as happens in the United States Congress? In the circumstances, will she urge her right hon. Friends to freeze all arms sales to Indonesia as from now?
§ Mrs. RocheNo, I certainly cannot give my hon. Friend that assurance. She knows that we continue to monitor the situation very carefully. It was this Government who, unlike the previous Government, introduced the criteria by which every application is 509 measured. We already give information on those other matters. Of course, it is for the business managers to decide when debates can take place, but my hon. Friend might wish to pursue other actions open to her to secure a debate on the Floor of the House.
§ Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham)What does "ethical policy" mean when we see farces day by day, over Sierra Leone and now Indonesia? Did the Foreign Office receive the documents? Did it read them? Why did DTI Ministers not themselves see that there would be an unfortunate circumstance if the Indonesian regime used any of the materials—these armaments and anti-riot goods—against its own population, as we see it doing on television now? Why did not the Minister, and particularly the President of the Board of Trade, understand the sensitivity of the matter? Was the Foreign Office asleep on duty again? How can the Minister explain the 56 export licences under her Government?
§ Mrs. RocheThe right hon. Gentleman is speaking absolute nonsense. This party—the Government—will take no lectures from him or from the Conservative party. They had no criteria. It was my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary who introduced the criteria and who has fully answered all the questions on this matter. I have clearly said that there have been refusals because we are concerned about the situation and we are monitoring it on the ground. We will not take any lectures from the right hon. Gentleman, thank you very much.