HC Deb 25 March 1998 vol 309 cc483-5
3. Mr. Gray

What representations she has received from non-governmental organisations about the White Paper on International Development. [34628]

Clare Short

NGOs have warmly welcomed the Government's White Paper on international development, particularly our commitment to the international poverty eradication strategy.

Mr. Gray

Of the 148 clauses in the White Paper, only two deal with the voluntary sector. The Secretary of State describes the NGOs' welcome as warm, but how does she reconcile that with the comments of Save the Children, which described its treatment as

perfunctory, incomplete, and a little confusing"? Is it not the case that her disregard of the NGOs in the White Paper is indicative of a longer-term intention to use national Governments to deliver aid, rather than NGOs?

Clare Short

I think that, if the hon. Gentleman talks to the more thoughtful NGOs, he will find that they would say—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman should allow me to answer his question, instead of hectoring before I have replied. He will find that they would say that the White Paper concedes lots of what they have been demanding for a long time, which requires change of everyone. When one has been battering on a door that was closed and it then opens—the Government are more sympathetic and proactive in the field of development and are anxious to work with other Governments where they are keen to do so, because in that way it is possible to achieve much more in terms of the universal provision of basic health care, education and so on—there has to be an adjustment in the role of NGOs.

The welcome for the White Paper has been very strong among NGOs. There has been some carping on the sidelines such as the hon. Gentleman tries to put forward, but not from Save the Children as an organisation. The hon. Gentleman may try to find one mischievous quote—

Mr. Gray

indicated dissent.

Clare Short

The hon. Gentleman does n ot have to act out his part—I heard what he said previously. If he listens to the reply, he might learn something—[Interruption.]

Madam Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman has had an opportunity to put his question, and he should listen to the answer.

Clare Short

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

As I said, the NGOs are all, in turn, rethinking their role in terms of working with a Government who have a stronger commitment to international development and who are seeking to work with other Governments with a stronger commitment. There is still a very powerful role for NGOs, but it is a changed role in changed circumstances.

Ann Clwyd

Although the White Paper's focus on eradicating poverty is very welcome, will my right hon. Friend pay special attention to Rwanda? The Select Committee on International Development has just returned from a visit to that country, which I know she has visited. It is the third poorest country in the world, fighting to recover from genocide, fighting to rebuild its education and health service; yet, with a crippling debt around its neck, it is impossible for Rwanda to survive and pay back that debt. Will my right hon. Friend give it very special attention?

Clare Short

I agree very much with my hon. Friend that the situation that confronts the Government and people of Rwanda is intolerable, and I have a lot of admiration and respect for what they are trying to do. They are recovering from genocide after the international community let them down badly and breached our agreements in international treaties always to intervene to prevent genocide.

Rwanda is a desperately poor country. It has very many people in prison, accused of genocide, and a large number of people trying to survive genocide. A million people have returned. The country has a high debt burden, and yet the Government of Rwanda are determined to make progress. We are committed to doing everything we can to work with the Government of Rwanda to achieve reconciliation, to rebuild the economy and to help with debt. It is not easy, but we are determined to do all that we can.

Dr. Tonge

Also in the context of the White Paper, and Rwanda in particular, have the Government any plans to bring pressure to bear on the European Union to help with the judicial process in Rwanda? Following the genocide, there are so many prisoners in Rwanda who need to be tried and dealt with.

Although the White Paper focuses largely on primary education for all, will the Secretary of State also consider helping with university and higher education in Rwanda, because so many skilled and educated people were lost in the genocide?

Clare Short

The question regarding the criminal justice system in Rwanda is not just a resource question, but a question of trying to build systems and promote speedier trials in a highly traumatised country, but the hon. Lady is right. I visited Kigali prison, which is absolutely full of people accused of horrendous crimes. There must be a system to speed up trials. Then, in the case of some of the more trivial offenders, it may be possible to promote truth and reconciliation, in a style similar to that adopted in South Africa. We have offered help to the Government of Rwanda, and I believe that they are ready to move soon.

On higher education, in Rwanda and elsewhere, we are reviewing all our scholarships and other support programmes to focus on the essential skills needed to build the capacity of poor countries to take control of their own future. Universal primary education is the key to the progress of a whole generation. Next, one should consider the high-level skills that are needed to give a country the capacity to make progress. It is not enough to put a sprinkling of resources into higher education in a way that promotes the interests of an elite, and does not promote development in the country.

Mr. Bayley

Does my right hon. Friend agree that NGOs based in developing countries provide a terribly important way of delivering aid to the poorest people? Has she been seeking feedback on her White Paper from NGOs abroad?

Clare Short

I agree with my hon. Friend that NGOs in the South need strengthening. They are part of the democratic capacity and governance capacity of a country, and we need to devote more support and effort to strengthening them. I continue to believe that, on universal public services such as education and health care, it is best if there is a willing Government with NGOs supporting, criticising and demanding quality services, because then one gets universality. However, there is a case for NGOs, as part of civil society, to stand up for the poor and for quality of services, and one must look to NGOs to provide services where Governments are unwilling. It is less good, but it is the way to go. Strengthening southern NGOs is a major objective of our policy.

Mr. Faber

I listened carefully to the right hon. Lady's reply to my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire (Mr. Gray). She must accept that the criticism by renowned organisations such as Christian Aid and Save the Children is more than carping. Even the Select Committee felt that the role of NGOs had been dealt with too briefly in the report.

If the right hon. Lady is keen to accentuate the positive and turn to what is good in her relationship with NGOs, as I am sure she is, can she tell us about the progress of the consultation process that she promised in her Department's reply to the Select Committee report? When does she intend to publish a more detailed response on the role of NGOs?

Clare Short

Up until today, Question Time on this subject has been genuine, but today there is clearly a theme to the questions. Hon. Members are trying to pretend that, there is a conflict between the Government and NGOs in the field of development. That is an untruth. I am sure that, if the hon. Gentleman met some of the NGOs as often as I do, he would know that it was an untruth.

It is true that the step change that is reflected in the White Paper requires a change of strategy for British NGOs. They are engaged in much detailed thinking, and some of them have spoken to me about their change of role, arising from the fact that the Government are making a much more active and determined effort to promote international development. The consultation with NGOs about this change, which comes out of the more informal discussions that we have had and which I announced at Question Time a month ago, will start shortly.