PUBLIC BODIES SUBJECT TO REFORM BY ASSEMBLY (Hansard, 25 March 1998)

§ Mr. Wigley
I beg to move amendment No. 38, in page 76, line 12, at end insert — 651 '5C. The Higher Education Funding Council for Wales.'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker
With this, it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 51, in page 76, leave out line 32.

§ Mr. Wigley
The amendments deal with the vital issue of higher education. Higher education is of central importance in developing our economic well-being in Wales. Education has played a considerable part in Ireland's economic miracle. Higher education is also critical in advancing the cultural identity of Wales and in maximising the cultural fulfilment of individuals and communities. Higher education is the key to creating a new quality in all walks of life in Wales.
The national assembly will help to mould and assist the healthy development of higher education in Wales, both for what it is in its own right and for what it can do to advance Wales as a nation. It is against that background that we have to ask why the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales is listed under part III of schedule 3 among the bodies which may only gain functions. It should be listed under part I, among the bodies which may gain or lose functions. That is what the amendments would achieve.
The House is well aware that the Further Education Funding Council for Wales already appears in part I, so why should higher education be treated differently? They should both be co-ordinated, because there is a considerable overlap. They should be treated together for these purposes, particularly in the context of lifelong learning.
We need greater co-operation between the higher education institutions in Wales rather than that they should guard their own vested interests. The national assembly has a role in creating the conditions for that co-operation. Many higher education institutions in Wales are small and suffer diseconomies of scale. In a world where competition for finance is so acute, co-operation is needed. The University of Wales has adequate critical mass. If there were collaboration between the two levels, they would be much more effective.
On research funding, Wales's track record, except, possibly, for that in Cardiff, has been fairly limited. We have nothing like the 5 per cent. proportion of UK funding of research councils that we might expect. Therefore, we hope that the assembly will be able to co-ordinate the work of higher and further education, for which purpose the two bodies should be put on an equal footing. That is what the amendments provide.

§ Mr. Livsey
I support the amendments. I was a member of the Welsh agricultural college, a higher education body, before I came into the House. It is now part of the Welsh Rural Institute and of the university of Wales. The Welsh agricultural college was founded with the help of the Welsh local authorities. The matter of higher education should be considered by the assembly.

§ Mr. Hain
I accept the sincerity with which both the right hon. Member for Caernarfon (Mr. Wigley) and the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Mr. Livsey) have spoken to the amendment, and I agree with many of the points that they make. Higher education makes a vital multi-billion pound contribution to the Welsh economy. It is also a part of our lifelong learning strategy. I want to see the barriers between HE and FE broken down as much as possible. That is crucial to delivering our strategy.
652 We want to co-ordinate the provision of higher and further education more effectively, and the Welsh assembly will enable us to do that. The higher education sector is ultimately accountable to the Welsh assembly even though we have given it the independence that is provided for in the Bill, in reflection of the traditional independence of the universities. Successive Governments have for decades left decisions on universities' funding to specialised arm's-length bodies—the University Grants Committee and now the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales.