HC Deb 13 March 1998 vol 308 cc893-6

'A person does not commit an offence under section 1(1) if he hunts any wild mammal with dogs on land where the owner or occupier thereof reasonably considers that such hunting is necessary in order to kill, control or disperse such mammals and either:—

  1. (a) because the public have rights of access thereto or such land is in close proximity to a highway or public right of way or otherwise the owner or occupier reasonably considers it unsafe to kill or control such mammals by shooting, or
  2. (b) the owner or occupier of such land reasonably considers that it is impractical to kill or control such mammals by shooting.'.—[Mr. Luff.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

Motion made, and Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:—

The House divided: Ayes 42, Noes 128.

Division No. 211] [1.13 pm
Arbuthnot, James Johnson Smith, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
Baldry, Tony Lansley, Andrew
Boswell, Tim Luff, Peter
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
Chope, Christopher McIntosh, Miss Anne
Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Rushcliffe) Maclean, Rt Hon David
Colvin, Michael Maginnis, Ken
Curry, Rt Hon David Mates, Michael
Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter Mawhinney, Rt Hon Sir Brian
Fallon, Michael Öpik, Lembit
Forth, Rt Hon Eric Paterson, Owen
Garnier, Edward Robathan, Andrew
Gill, Christopher St Aubyn, Nick
Gray, James Spring, Richard
Greenway, John Streeter, Gary
Grieve, Dominic Taylor, Ian (Esher & Walton)
Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archie Tyrie, Andrew
Hawkins, Nick Woodward, Shaun
Heald, Oliver Yeo, Tim
Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael
Hoey, Kate Tellers for the Ayes:
Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas Mr. Edward Leigh and
Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot) Mr. Peter Atkinson.
Ainger, Nick Gibson, Dr Ian
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) Gilroy, Mrs Linda
Anderson, Janet (Rossendale) Godman, Norman A
Atkins, Charlotte Gordon, Mrs Eileen
Austin, John Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale)
Barnes, Harry Hancock, Mike
Benn, Rt Hon Tony Henderson, Ivan (Harwich)
Bennett, Andrew F Hill, Keith
Bermingham, Gerald Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin) Iddon, Dr Brian
Bradshaw, Ben Jackson, Ms Glenda (Hampstead)
Brake, Tom Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough)
Brown, Rt Hon Nick (Newcastle E) Johnson, Alan (Hull W & Hessle)
Buck, Ms Karen Jones, Dr Lynne (Selly Oak)
Butler, Mrs Christine Keen, Ann (Brentford & Isleworth)
Caplin, Ivor Kelly, Ms Ruth
Casale, Roger Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
Cawsey, Ian King, Andy (Rugby & Kenilworth)
Clapham, Michael King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green)
Clark, Rt Hon Dr David (S Shields) Lawrence, Ms Jackie
Clark, Dr Lynda (Edinburgh Pentlands) Lepper, David
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S) Love, Andrew
Coaker, Vernon McCabe, Steve
Coffey, Ms Ann McCafferty, Ms Chris
Coleman, Iain McDonagh, Siobhain
Cooper, Yvette McFall, John
Corbyn, Jeremy McIsaac, Shona
Corston, Ms Jean McNulty, Tony
Cousins, Jim MacShane, Denis
Cranston, Ross Mallaber, Judy
Darvill, Keith Marshall—Andrews, Robert
Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H) Martlew, Eric
Dobbin, Jim Merron, Gillian
Dobson, Rt Hon Frank Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley)
Dowd, Jim Miller, Andrew
Eagle, Angela (Wallasey) Moffatt, Laura
Efford, Clive Morgan, Ms Julie (Cardiff N)
Etherington, Bill Morley, Elliot
Fitzpatrick, Jim Mountford, Kali
Flint, Caroline Murphy, Paul (Torfaen)
Foster, Michael J (Worcester) Naysmith, Dr Doug
Gale, Roger Norris, Dan
Gapes, Mike O'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
Gardiner, Barry Olner, Bill
Gerrard, Neil Palmer, Dr Nick
Perham, Ms Linda
Pickthall, Colin Stinchcombe, Paul
Pike, Peter L Taylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)
Pollard, Kerry Taylor, Sir Teddy
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E) Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
Primarolo, Dawn Timms, Stephen
Prosser, Gwyn Tipping, Paddy
Quinn, Lawrie Turner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown)
Rammell, Bill Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Rapson, Syd Vis, Dr Rudi
Raynsford, Nick Walley, Ms Joan
Ruane, Chris Watts, David
Russell, Bob (Colchester) Whitehead, Dr Alan
Savidge, Malcolm Wicks, Malcolm
Sawford, Phil Winnick, David
Sedgemore, Brian Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
Shaw, Jonathan Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth)
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, Angela (Basildon) Tellers for the Noes:
Smith, Jacqui (Redditch) Mr. John Heppell and
Southworth, Ms Helen Mr. Kevin McNamara.

Question accordingly negatived.

Mr. Peter Brooke (Cities of London and Westminster)

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I tried to catch your eye in the aftermath of the vote on new clause 18. I was one of those hon. Members with Northern Ireland experience who rose to speak at that stage. I make no complaint whatever about the closure, not least because the question that I wanted to ask was the last question asked by my right hon. Friend the shadow Home Secretary, but one of the consequences of your accepting the closure was that the Minister, who also rose, was unable to reply to that question. As it is a question of no little importance in the context of the Northern Ireland talks, I wonder whether, through you, I could ask the Minister to write to my right hon. Friend and place a copy in the Library.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

That is not a matter for the Chair, but perhaps the Minister has heard the right hon. Gentleman's comments.

Mr. Kenneth Clarke (Rushcliffe)

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. While the Minister is reflecting on that, may I ask whether you would allow a vote on new clause 20 if it were now to be moved formally? It was selected for debate by Madam Speaker and formed part of the subject matter of our longest debate so far today.

I know that we have already had a debate on new clause 2, but the substance of new clause 20 is different, as the former would have allowed the activities defined in the Bill to be reduced by an order of the Secretary of State, whereas the latter would simply allow the definitions to be changed if they proved inaccurate. On that basis, I think that the opinion of the House should be tested, and I wonder whether you will allow a vote.

Mr. Hawkins


Mr. Deputy Speaker


Mr. Hawkins

It is further to the point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. Let me answer the point of order.

It is for the Chair to decide whether to allow a vote, and I have decided that we will not have a vote on the matter. We must move on to the next new clause.

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