HC Deb 02 March 1998 vol 307 cc690-2
3. Mr. Gordon Prentice

What steps he is taking to reduce the prison population. [30340]

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Jack Straw)

Within the sentencing framework set by Parliament, who is sent to prison and for how long is a matter for the courts. Prison is the only appropriate punishment for many offenders. The Government are also committed to providing more effective and tougher community punishments.

Mr. Prentice

I hear what the Home Secretary says, but is there not a danger of the prison population spiralling out of control? The official Home Office mid-range projections take the prison population from 65,000 this year to 83,000 in seven years' time—which is double the 1992 level—and the top-range projection is for 93,000 prisoners. Sending all those people to prison costs the rest of us an arm and a leg, as a top-security prisoner costs us £35,000 a year, and a category B or category C local prisoner costs us £17,000 a year. May I urge my right hon. Friend to do all that he can to bring down the prison population, as quickly as humanly possible, and to levels that are commonplace in the rest of the European Union?

Mr. Straw

My hon. Friend must bear in mind the inheritance that we suffered from the Conservatives. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh, no."] Our levels of burglary, vehicle crime, robbery and assault are the highest in western Europe—higher, even, than those in the United States. Against that background, it is hardly surprising that our prison population is rising. However, there is no danger of the prison population getting out of control—per head of population, it has only recently reached the level in Scotland.

Mr. Quentin Davies

If the Government seriously want to reduce the prison population, would it not be a good idea to stop introducing an endless raft of unnecessary, bossy, nannying and tyrannical rules and regulations—progressively criminalising perfectly honest and honourable activities, from pistol shooting competitions to eating beef on the bone? In the light of yesterday's countryside rally, does the Home Secretary realise that, if he—not to mention his dreadful Government—goes much further along that road, and reduces the drink-driving limit and bans fox hunting, he will progressively bring the law into disrepute? Is it not about time that the Government thought before they regulated?

Mr. Straw

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the fox hunting Bill—the Wild Mammals (Hunting with Dogs) Bill—is a private Member's measure. He knows also that there is overwhelming public support for the crime and disorder agenda that the Government are vigorously pursuing.

Mr. Grocott

Has my right hon. Friend noticed that, whenever he mentions the previous Government's legacy, he is met with jeers from the Conservative Benches? Does he recall, as I do, that for 11 years—from 1979, until she was thrown out in 1990—Mrs. Thatcher repeatedly blamed the previous Labour Government? Will he therefore continue blaming the previous Tory Government until at least 2008, when we can perhaps review the policy?

Mr. Straw

I concur with that. As I am a fair-minded Home Secretary—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] I am glad that that has approbation from both sides of the House. As I am a fair-minded Home Secretary, we shall continue blaming the previous Government as long as it is justified for us to do so. The facts are that crime doubled under the previous Government, whereas the number of people convicted of those crimes fell by one third.

Mr. Alan Clark

Is not the most effective way of reducing the prison population not to prosecute wrongdoing? Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied with the application of discretionary powers by the Metropolitan police in that respect? What input does his Department have on that application?

Mr. Straw

The previous Government's policy was not to prosecute wrongdoing—as the right hon. Gentleman says—which is why crime rose. Far too many criminals felt that they could get away with committing crimes. I have no knowledge of what the right hon. Gentleman was referring to in particular, although I should be happy to receive a letter from him. He should nevertheless have caught up with the fact that decisions on prosecution are now made not by police but by the independent Crown Prosecution Service.

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