Travel arrangements for children receiving nursery education otherwise than at school. (Hansard, 15 July 1998)

§ Ms Estelle Morris
I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker
With this, it will be convenient to take Lords amendment No. 367. I inform the House that amendment No. 137 involves privilege.

§ Ms Morris
Amendment No. 137 allows local authorities to provide transport for those in nursery education. Again, it involves a definition of a school and of early years education—which is of course before the age at which school officially starts. As we move into an era in which all four-year-olds are entitled to early years education—the announcement that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State made today will double the number of three-year-olds in early years education to 66 per cent. within three years—it is important that we give attention to school transport for this age group.
The amendment will benefit parents, providers of nursery education and local authorities, by giving a power to provide transport or help with transport expenses for children travelling to and from settings where part-time education for children under five is provided. I reassure hon. Members that included within the amendment will be all the providers who contribute to the early years development plan. It will be not only for the maintained schools but for the voluntary and independent sector.

§ Mrs. Browning
Will the Minister say what sort of transport she has in mind for three and four-year-olds? Almost certainly, most three-year-olds travelling on public transport would require a high level of supervision. Few parents would willingly put a three-year-old on a minibus or public transport vehicle without a lot of reassurances. I am thinking of staffing ratios, safety belts and the suitability of the vehicle. Would children of that age be expected to share transport with older children travelling to their separate schools? One can see all sorts 503 of problems if tiny children are mixed in with seven, eight or even 11-year-olds. What exactly does she have in mind?

§ Ms Morris
The hon. Lady makes an important point. The notion of a three-year-old plonked on a minibus with no security or supervision is one with which neither parents nor the Government would be happy. The purpose of the amendment is in this primary legislation is to give local authorities the power to use money to provide transport. That is an important step. I reassure the hon. Lady that I believe that the age group clearly needs special consideration. As we move forward, we shall issue guidance to local authorities, to ensure that young children are protected. We shall consult not only local authorities but parents, traditional providers of school transport and others. I reassure the hon. Lady that I certainly see the needs of this age group as different and special compared to those of secondary age children, who are the bulk of the children who travel to school.
I feel strongly that most young children should go to a nursery setting near where they live. I think that that will happen in most cases, but in rural areas or perhaps occasionally to meet parents' demands or preferences, it may be necessary to place a child further away. If we do not take the power to ensure that local authorities can spend money for this purpose, we might be denying places to children who might otherwise be able to have them. I assure the hon. Lady that we shall give proper consideration to the points that she has raised when we draw up the guidance and advice.

§ Mr. Brady
The Minister has touched on the point that I wish to raise—the question of distance travelled by very small children. I wanted to flag up my concern about the possibility of the amount of time taken by a long journey to nursery school being considered, by some parents, to be a partial solution to a child care problem. I am not saying that it would happen often, but it strikes me as a cause for concern, because I know of some cases in which children are put on certain types of transport because it takes longer to get to school. I ask the Minister to take that into account when drawing up the guidelines.

§ Ms Morris
I have visions of children in Altrincham and Sale, West being driven around on the bus for an hour before school and two hours after school to fit in with their parents' working arrangements. I am sure that it does not happen often, but I take the point.
I want to assure the hon. Gentleman and other hon. Members that, when an early years development plan is sent to the Department for approval, one of the things that we check is distance, because we need to be sure that the children covered by the plan do not have to travel unreasonable distances. That was an issue that we took up with many local authorities when they published their plan, and I assure the hon. Gentleman that it is something that we shall continue to watch carefully. As a Government who have put an extra £400 million into child care, we do not need to have children riding around on the underground to meet their parents' child care needs. That is not one of our solutions.
Amendment No. 367 will allow the Secretary of State to require local authorities to publish details of their nursery transport policy, in the same way as they currently 504 publish school and college transport details. I hope that that will further allay the concerns expressed by the hon. Members for Tiverton and Honiton (Mrs. Browning) and for Altrincham and Sale, West (Mr. Brady). The transport arrangements made will be clear both to parents, so that they know what is available, and—perhaps as important—to local authorities and the Government, so that we can be sure that they are proper.