SCOTTISH PARLIAMENTARY CORPORATE BODY

HC Deb 29 January 1998 vol 305 cc553-4

Question proposed, That this schedule be the second schedule to the Bill.

Mr. Dalyell

I wish to make a substantial point on this schedule in relation to the independence of Clerks. The schedule provides for the establishment of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, which is broadly modelled on the House of Commons Commission, established by the House of Commons (Administration) Act 1978. Schedule 2 makes further provision for the SPCB. It is uncontentious, except that the Clerks of the Parliament are referred to as "staff", while their opposite numbers at Westminster are referred to as "officers".

There are two issues within the schedule. First, unlike the House of Commons arrangements, the Clerk of the Parliament and Assistant Clerks are to be appointed by the SPCB under clause 19(2) and paragraph 3(1) of schedule 2. Under the 1978 Act, the Clerk, any Clerk Assistant, the Serjeant at Arms and the Speaker's personal staff are not appointed by the House of Commons Commission. In practice, the personal staff of the Speaker have the 1978 Act applied to them, although the Speaker retains the power to appoint such staff and to determine their tenure of office.

The Clerk of the House of Commons is appointed by the Crown for life, by letters patent; the Clerk Assistant is appointed by the Crown, under the sign manual, on the Speaker's recommendation, and is removable only upon an address of the House of Commons. The appointment of the Serjeant at Arms is a gift of the Queen under a warrant from the Lord Chamberlain, and the duties are prescribed by patent under the Great Seal. The significance of that is that the senior officers of the House of Commons have a degree of independence, which is an important consideration in giving advice on what may be politically contentious matters.

Are the Government convinced that the same independence is guaranteed at Holyrood? The background may be arcane, but the nub issue is the independence of the Clerks.

My second point is that, unlike the 1978 Act, no specific provision appears to have been made to apply employment legislation to those employed by the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Are those employed by the SPCB employed at the pleasure of the Crown, under general employment law, or are they subject to instructions given to the SPCB by the Scottish Parliament?

If the Minister wants to reflect on those complicated matters and give me an answer on Report, he will have no complaint from me.

Mr. McLeish

I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) about the independence that is required, and I want to reassure him on that point. Paragraph 3(3) of schedule 2 says: It is for the corporation to determine the terms and conditions of appointment of the staff of the Parliament, including arrangements for the payment of pensions". That is written into the Bill and that is what will happen.

On my hon. Friend's second question about employment conditions, I think that what he said will apply, but I should like to get some details on the matter before responding.

Question put and agreed to.

Schedule 2 agreed to.