§ 9. Mr. Ian BruceWhat assessment he has made of the foreign policy factors leading to the sale of Hawk jets to the Indonesian Government. [12120]
§ Mr. FatchettNone. Any future application to export licensable defence equipment will be considered against the new criteria that we announced on 28 July.
§ Mr. BruceI am sorry that the Minister has not got to grips with this matter. The decision to sell Hawk jets was made by the previous Labour Government two or three years after the takeover of East Timor. The House and the country would like to know why the Government, who are looking at ethical issues in arms sales, believe that we should not sell Land Rovers to Indonesia some 22 years after the takeover of East Timor, whereas the previous Labour Government sold jets to Indonesia a couple of years after that country—some say because they were urged to do so by the American and British Governments at the time—took over East Timor. It is a confusing issue. May we have some clarification?
§ Mr. FatchettI am rather confused by the hon. Gentleman's question. Is he urging the Government to stop the sale of Hawks? If so, he should look at all the faces around him and consider the commercial interests represented by his hon. Friends. We have published clear guidelines for the sale of defence equipment and we will judge every export licence against those criteria. We will take no lectures from the hon. Gentleman and other Conservatives who, when in government, armed Saddam 700 Hussein and cost this country £750 million of taxpayers' money. The Conservatives have no right to talk on these issues—their record is appalling.
§ Dr. PalmerIs my hon. Friend aware of the widespread support, not just among Labour supporters, for the new approach to foreign policy, and in particular the Government?s willingness to look again at the sale of Hawk jets, which concerns a great many people who feel that they will be used to support oppression in the area claimed by Indonesia?
§ Mr. FatchettI welcome my hon. Friend's warm support for our foreign policy and, in particular, for the arms criteria which we published in July. He may also be interested to know that Jose Ramos Horta, the East Timorean, made a clear statement in Mozambique 10 days or so ago, in which he also expressed strong support for the ethical foreign policy of the Labour Government in the United Kingdom and for our approach to exports and defence sales.
§ Mr. BluntIs not the truth that, considering the licences for arms sales to Indonesia that were disallowed by the previous Government and the licensing of Hawks under the present Government, foreign policy is neither more nor less ethical than it was before 1 May? The only victim of the soundbite diplomacy of the past six months has been the British national interest, as we learn that Malaysia has signed a £1 billion contract for patrol ships with a German company, when Vosper Thornycroft thought that it was in pole position, and that Turkey says in effect that we will be disbarred from a $7.5 billion export market. British jobs and the national interest are bearing the burden of soundbite politics.
§ Mr. FatchettThe hon. Gentleman has made his argument very clear: he would sell to anyone, anywhere, at any time, and would take no account of the regime and have no regard for human rights. We know where that policy leads: it led to the arming of Saddam Hussein and to the loss of taxpayers' money. It is time that the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues understood the failures of the previous Government and recognised the new Government's positive policies.