§ 4.5 pm
§ Madam SpeakerOrder. I instruct hon. Members that they must make points of order and not points of frustration. Several hon. Members who were not called during business questions are seeking to catch my eye. I stress that they must raise proper points of order.
§ Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I promise you that I am not one whit frustrated, and I seek your guidance. If it were true that an hon. Member had been threatened with being prevented from speaking his mind and threatened with expulsion from the parliamentary party, would such a threat—if made—constitute a contempt of Parliament?
§ Madam SpeakerThe right hon. and learned Gentleman asks a hypothetical question. If he touches upon a matter of privilege, he must write to me: I shall not have an exchange across the Floor of the House on that matter. He is a long-standing Member of Parliament, so he will know that I do not deal in hypothetical answers.
§ Mr. Gerald Howarth (Aldershot)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Leader of the House asked why I did not object to the formation of the Standards and Privileges Committee last night. I did not object because the motion was not debatable. [Interruption.]
§ Madam SpeakerOrder. I do not need any help.
A point of order must raise a matter with which I can deal. The hon. Member for Aldershot (Mr. Howarth) raises a point of frustration. He is attempting to answer the Leader of the House, and he cannot do that through me, as Speaker. He must raise a point of order with which I can deal. I shall listen to his point of order if it concerns me.
§ Mr. HowarthMy point of order is quite simple, Madam Speaker. Will you confirm to the House that a motion such as that moved last night is simply not debatable? If an objection had been registered, the Committee could not have been formed until some time in the future, thereby delaying the matter.
§ Madam SpeakerThe hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct—and he has now put a correct point of order to me. He could have objected to the motion last night. That would have delayed the establishment of the Committee, and the matter would have come before the House again. The hon. Gentleman could have objected if he had wished to do so, but, out of kindness to the House, he did not.
§ Mr. Simon Burns (Chelmsford, West)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. The concept of internal exile is constitutionally very vague and almost unknown. Is it in order for you to discover whether the hon. Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Sarwar)—who has not, to the best of my knowledge, been seen in the precincts of Westminster, or certainly in the Chamber, since shortly 995 after the election—and the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Mr. Wareing), who has not been seen in the Chamber for a week, have been told by the Government Whips Office that they must not come to the House? If that is so, they would not be able to represent the interests of their constituents.
§ Madam SpeakerLet me deal with one point of order at a time. That is not a matter for me.
§ Madam SpeakerI am not concerned with the internal matters of any political party. As far as I am concerned, the matter has been referred to Sir Gordon Downey, who, in turn, will no doubt inform the appropriate Committee. I am concerned with that process, and not with the internal matters of any political party.
§ Mr. Nicholas Soames (Mid-Sussex)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. You are the guardian of the rights of Parliament, and we poor, miserable, downtrodden Back Benchers look to you to act in just that way.
The Leader of the House says that the Prime Minister is personally satisfied with the explanation that he has been offered by the Secretary of State for Wales. The House, however, and particularly the Opposition, are not satisfied. Who is supreme in this matter—the House or the Prime Minister? May I ask you, Madam Speaker, to clarify the point? Will you ask the Prime Minister to come to the House to re-clarify the situation, where he may have inadvertently not quite got his answer right yesterday?
§ Madam SpeakerI have no authority, as the hon. Gentleman knows, to demand that any Member or Minister come to the House to make a statement. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to pursue the matter further to secure a debate, he must do so through the usual channels.
§ Mr. Michael Jack (Fylde)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is a question of the accuracy of the Official Report. In the context of the questioning of the Prime Minister yesterday during Prime Minister's Question Time by my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague), the Leader of the Opposition, he raised matters concerning the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Mr. Smith).
The Prime Minister said:
I have just made it clear that I investigated the matter this morning. There is no truth in these allegations."—[Official Report, 25 June 1997; Vol. 296, c. 838.]Subsequently, the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent has denied that position. Is it possible to have the Official Report corrected?
§ Madam SpeakerIf the hon. Member is seeking to amend in any way the Official Report, he must see the right hon. Gentleman who made the statement—the Prime Minister—along with the Editor of Hansard.
§ Mrs. Gwyneth Dunwoody (Crewe and Nantwich)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Would you confirm that 996 it is not only the duty but the right of Members of Parliament to enter any part of this Parliament on any occasion, and to express their view in any way that they are so responsible for? Would you confirm also, from your long experience, that it is exceedingly difficult to keep members of the Labour party quiet for any length of time?
§ Madam SpeakerAll I can say in response to the hon. Lady is, "Well said."
§ Mr. James Paice (South-East Cambridgeshire)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am sure that you will agree that items of correspondence between the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition are tremendously important to the House, especially when they refer, as in this instance, to events surrounding a Secretary of State, a member of the Government.
In answer to a question earlier, the Leader of the House referred to the Prime Minister's reply, and said that he had carried out a full investigation. I ask you, as Speaker, to ensure that the details of that investigation, as to who was consulted before the Prime Minister responded to my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition, are tabled and made available to the House.
§ Madam SpeakerI have no authority to require a right hon. Gentleman or any Member of the House to put before the House any investigations that he has carried out that are of an internal nature, which in this instance they obviously are.
Mr. Edward Gamier (Harborough)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Are you able to confirm that most periods of business questions, both in this Parliament and in the previous one, lasted for very nearly an hour? At least that was the position sometimes. Today, in your discretion, you brought the proceedings to an end at about 4 o'clock or 5 minutes past 4.
As a result, I was unable to catch your eye to raise with the Leader of the House the important question of new age travellers in my constituency. May I ask you, Madam Speaker, that on other occasions Back Benchers who wish to raise constituency matters with the Leader of the House may be given a somewhat longer opportunity to catch your eye?
§ Madam SpeakerAs I thought, the hon. and learned Gentleman has raised a point of frustration, not a point of order. I can tell him and the House as a whole that business questions, on average, last 35 minutes. That is the average since I have been Speaker. I keep a record, and I always have the details with me.