HC Deb 23 June 1997 vol 296 cc614-6
8. Mr. Bill O'Brien

To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage what representations he has received calling for changes to the operation of the national lottery; and if he will make a statement. [3091]

Mr. Chris Smith

I have received eight representations from hon. Members and approximately 200 representations from others calling for changes in the operation of the lottery. An early-day motion on this issue, signed by 65 hon. Members, was put down two weeks ago. I will publish a White Paper next month in which we will set out our proposals for reform of the lottery, including how we intend to seek a competitive and efficient not-for-profit operator at the end of the current licence and how we intend to channel a portion of lottery funds into education and health-related projects, as we promised during the election campaign.

Mr. O'Brien

I thank my right hon. Friend for that constructive reply and congratulate him on his approach to the massive salary increases that the directors of Camelot awarded themselves. I support his view about finding a non-profit-making operator for the lottery. When considering the White Paper, will my right hon. Friend have regard to the fact that a good number of people throughout the United Kingdom would like the prize money to be distributed more widely to allow more people to have a win on the lottery? On the distribution of money for good causes, will he consider helping the many old people's organisations in small communities that are suffering because they have lost their headquarters?

Mr. Smith

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his kind remarks. I can indeed assure him that I am anxious that, increasingly, the money from the various lottery distributors should go to small-scale, grass-roots, neighbourhood community projects to help people in their local communities. That is beginning to happen and I hope that we can build on it

Mr. Brooke

What is the Secretary of State's current definition of the arm's-length principle?

Mr. Smith

The definition of the arm's-length principle is that the Government do not make decisions directly about the allocation of individual grants.

Mr. Barnes

Grants have often been distributed unreasonably—some areas have suffered quite badly as they have not been able to obtain them. One of the characteristics of the grants is that they often go to conurbations rather than other areas. Might there be a case for saying that more money should be available in the National Lottery Charities Board area rather than some of the other areas such as the millennium fund, so that more, smaller bodies can qualify, such as pensioner organisations?

Mr. Smith

My hon. Friend is right to identify the valuable work that the National Lottery Charities Board has been doing in recent months to target small-scale grants to small organisations. I very much welcome that. In the next year or two, of course, one question that will fall to be decided is what will happen when the millennium stream of funding comes to an end. We will certainly welcome representations on what should happen after that point is reached, not merely from hon. Members on both sides of the House but from people throughout the country.

Mr. Maude

The Secretary of State will have seen the independent report, quoted in the papers on 6 June, by TLF publications, which shows that the national lottery gives a greater proportion of its proceeds to good causes and in tax than any other lottery in the world and is, therefore, by the agreed definition, the most efficient. Does he not understand that that factor may be associated with the lottery's being run for profit? Does not his determination to switch in later years to its being run by a not-for-profit organisation mean that he is not remotely interested in how much money is raised for good causes, but is interested simply in removing people's ability to make a profit?

Mr. Smith

No, I am afraid that the right hon. Gentleman is not correct. It is precisely because I am interested in maximising the revenue for good causes and ensuring that money is not wasted in any way—be it on unnecessary profit or anything else—that I am anxious to seek a not-for-profit operator. I am sure that it is also precisely because of that that Camelot, among others, has already begun to discuss with us how we can best seek a not-for-profit operation of the lottery.

9. Liz Blackman

To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage what recent discussions he has had with the lottery distribution fund boards. [3093]

Mr. Banks

My right hon. Friend met the chairman and chief executives of the London-based lottery distribution bodies on 3 June. It was the first in a regular series of meetings that, in the future, will also involve the bodies based in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The main topic for discussion was our plan for reform of the lottery.

Liz Blackman

I thank my hon. Friend for his reply. From what I have heard this afternoon, people in the region in which I live and the constituency I represent will be reassured to hear that the Government are reconsidering lottery fund distribution. On a different but related issue, when the White Paper is drawn up, can we also ensure that we monitor the types of schemes to ensure that they have broad public support and confidence—something which has not always been evident in the past?

Mr. Banks

I have looked at a list of the grants made in my hon. Friend's constituency: they amount to £468,000. There are some very good schemes indeed, such as Long Eaton United football club. I hope that it is prospering well—as, indeed, are most sportsmen and women under the new regime.

The east midlands attracts about 3.87 per cent. of the award value, which is definitely to the lower end of the distribution. The White Paper must and will address the concerns about lottery distribution where it has failed. One such concern is the regional discrepancies. Some awards have also been severely criticised, and we must review the reasons for that and deal with the problems. The dome, of course, is now a matter for the Dome Secretary.

Mr. Hogg

When the Minister has discussions with the fund distributors, will he please emphasise the importance of seeking new ways of channelling money to village halls and playing greens in rural areas?

Mr. Banks

It is at the smaller end of lottery grants that much benefit is accruing. A lot of attention focuses on the mega-grants, especially on large projects, some of which are in London—I emphasise that before someone behind me does it for me—but the question is a good one, and the distribution bodies should consider precisely the areas to which the right hon. and learned Gentleman referred.