HC Deb 20 January 1997 vol 288 cc604-5
2. Mr. Barry Jones

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many local education authority (a) high schools and (b) primary schools he has visited to discuss education provision; and if he will make a statement. [9908]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Jonathan Evans)

In the LEA-maintained sector, my right hon. Friend has visited eight high schools and six primary schools since July 1995. Since my appointment in June, I have visited four high schools and six primary schools. We have both discussed a range of education issues on those occasions. The Under-Secretary of State for Wales, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, North (Mr. Jones), has also visited a number of schools. In fact, all three Welsh Office Ministers visited schools last week.

Mr. Jones

Has not teacher morale nose-dived since the publication of the new pension arrangements? Is it not true that there has been a flood of applications for early retirement from teachers in Wales? Does he agree that schools now find it hard to employ mature teachers and that LEAs are strapped for cash?

Mr. Evans

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me an opportunity to correct much of the misinformation relating to the Government's proposals that has been spread, not least by some Labour Members. Some 80 per cent. of teachers retire before the age of 60, and widespread concerns have been expressed about that, not least by the Government Actuary and the Public Accounts Committee, which have led to the consultation recently launched by the Department for Education and Employment. It is not the Government's aim in any way to do away with early retirement for teachers, as has been claimed. In fact, in the current settlement for the next financial year, we have funded on the basis of 75 per cent. of current retirement levels. I am bound to make the point, however, that four out of five teachers retiring before 60 means too much expertise being lost from our schools.

Mr. Win Griffiths

When the hon. Gentleman and other Welsh Office Ministers have visited schools, have they noticed the size of classes, especially in primary schools? Is he satisfied with the share of the Welsh Office budget that goes to local authorities for education purposes which, this year, has increased by less than the rate of inflation? Can he explain why there are more than 5,000 more children in primary school classes of more than 30 children than there were at the beginning of the 1990s?

Mr. Evans

When Welsh Office Ministers visit schools, we believe in being frank with teachers and I shall be frank with the hon. Gentleman. Since 1979, class sizes have not increased considerably—they are certainly slightly larger, but there is no greatly measurable difference. The point that I must make is that the Labour party controls many of the local education authorities in Wales, and figures that I released last week show that the areas of Wales in which there are the largest class sizes are those that are controlled by the Labour party. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman would be better employed directing his strictures to his friends in local government.