HC Deb 25 February 1997 vol 291 cc136-8
5. Mr. Jon Owen Jones

To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security what steps he is taking to ensure that pensioners claim the income support to which they are entitled. [15741]

The Minister for Social Security and Disabled People (Mr. Alistair Burt)

The Department and its agencies take extensive action to publicise income support and other benefits that pensioners may choose to claim. Help is there for those who need it.

Mr. Jones

Clearly, the extensive action that the Minister talks about is completely inadequate. Will he confirm that 1 million pensioners are £14 a week worse off because they do not claim their full entitlement? What effective measures do the Government intend to take in order to deliver their fair and full entitlement to those people who have contributed to this country throughout their lifetime?

Mr. Burt

A range of effective action can be, and is being, taken. The hon. Gentleman may be aware of the campaign that the Benefits Agency ran in January and the document entitled "Pensions and Benefits: a guide for older people". Publicity in the hon. Gentleman's constituency of Cardiff includes weekly benefit sessions at one of the community centres, fortnightly benefit advice at one of the hospitals and monthly benefit advice at another. Regular benefit talks are given to community groups and information appears in the local newspaper, of which I have some copies.

We have discovered over the years that, unless we target campaigns specifically, take-up will not increase. I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman has anything in mind regarding widespread take-up campaigns—those on his Front Bench have not mentioned it. For the time being, the Benefits Agency is doing extensive work in order to advertise benefits for those who need them.

Mrs. Roe

Can my hon. Friend confirm that he has received no workable proposals for identifying additional pensioners who are entitled to income support beyond the measures that the Government are taking already? Will he confirm also that, even if it were possible, paying income support to an extra 700,000 pensioners would cost more than £1 billion? Has he received any representations from the Labour party about what other benefits it would cut by £1 billion in order to remain within a fixed budget?

Mr. Burt

My hon. Friend makes an important point. It is often forgotten that more than 1.5 million pensioners already claim some £25 billion. My hon. Friend is correct to say that I have received no workable proposals from Opposition Members regarding a campaign.

Mr. McLeish

What about the fraud Bill?

Mr. Burt

That was not workable. Proposals that use the Inland Revenue, which does not have information on savings, for example, will not do the job. Benefits campaigns must be targeted and, in the absence of any workable proposals, Opposition Members are left spouting empty words and offering no sensible ideas about how to bring more people into benefit.

Mr. McLeish

The Minister's response provides a chilling example of how callously indifferent Ministers are to the plight of Britain's pensioners. Is he not seriously embarrassed that 1 million pensioners in Britain—10 per cent. of the total number of pensioners, or 1,500 pensioners in every constituency—live not on the breadline but below it? Does he not appreciate that that is a blight on Britain's pensioners, who have given so much and are receiving so little from the Government? Will he acknowledge that, in a few weeks' time, a Labour Government will reduce VAT on fuel, provide better health care and start to attack the scandal of Britain in 1997 having 1 million pensioners who are not getting what they are entitled to?

Mr. Burt

The hon. Gentleman is long on rhetoric but short on any practical proposals. I certainly deny the last part of his claims. Pensioners do not claim for a variety of reasons. It is wrong to suggest that all pensioners who do not claim income support are living below poverty levels; many live with families and enjoy the family life style.

It is noticeable that the hon. Gentleman—for all his wind—does not come up with anything specific to bring more people into benefit. He does not give proper credit to the work done by many information officers at Benefits Agency offices throughout the country, who work hard with pensioners' groups and others. It is about time that we heard a little bit of credit for their honest hard work in trying to do their job.

Mr. Ian Bruce

Surely the Labour party is the same party that, a few moments ago, was complaining about information leaflets being sent to single mothers. Were not the Government criticised roundly for television campaigns and for the money that was spent on advertising to tell people about their benefits? Is it not the responsibility of individuals to find out what is available to them and for the Government to do their best, as they do in the clear leaflets that are provided in all social security offices, to get that information to them?

Mr. Burt

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The departmental budget for publicity over the current three-year period is about £84 million. He is right. The Labour party cannot have it both ways: criticising the leaflets and not accepting that we have to get information across to people if benefits provision is to be sensible and good.