HC Deb 03 February 1997 vol 289 cc667-9
9. Mr. Waterson

To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage what meetings she has had with the tourism industry about the social chapter. [12225]

11. Sir Wyn Roberts

To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage what assessment she has made of the effects of imposing the provisions of the social chapter on the tourism industry. [12228]

Mrs. Virginia Bottomley

The tourism industry is one of the most dynamic in this country, containing one in 12 of all small businesses and with 20 per cent. growth in employment over the past 10 years. The year 1995 was a record one for the industry and indications are that 1996 will be even better. We must ensure that the industry is not damaged by unnecessary burdens and I have discussed that point with industry leaders.

Mr. Waterson

Does my right hon. Friend recall her excellent visit to Eastbourne pier last summer when she met representatives of the local tourism industry? Does she recall the concerns expressed about the effects of the social chapter and a national minimum wage? Does she agree that the danger of the social chapter is not just some of the provisions that already exist, but the fact that it could be extended limitlessly by the use of qualified majority voting? Would it not all end in tears?

Mrs. Bottomley

Undoubtedly it would all end in tears. I well remember my visit to my hon. Friend's constituency; I was most impressed by all that I saw, especially his pier, which was one of the influences, during the year of the pier, in our trying to modify the lottery rules to ensure that private as well as public owners could receive lottery money. My hon. Friend is entirely right. The tourism industry needs flexibility and the social chapter would be a huge threat and danger to it.

Sir Wyn Roberts

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is precisely the small business element of the tourism industry, to which she referred, that would suffer most as a result of the introduction of the social chapter, the 48-hour working week and the minimum wage? Will she view with considerable suspicion the tendentious conclusions of the report on employment emanating from Brussels today?

Mrs. Bottomley

My right hon. Friend is precisely right. One in 12 small businesses are involved in tourism and hospitality. The key is to ensure that there is a minimum of regulation, that liberalisation is promoted and that burdens are removed from employers. If one listens to the industry, one finds that that is the message that it gives time and again; that is the message that we have heard. When we set out our further strategy for tourism and hospitality later this week, we shall do so on the basis of working with the industry and not on the basis of imposing our ideology, as the Labour party does.

Mr. Bermingham

Does the right hon. Lady agree that if she made any inquiries in, for example, the Derbyshire peak district, south Lancashire and the Fylde area around Blackpool, about the wages paid there, she would find that they are currently in excess of what is likely to be the minimum wage? [HON. MEMBERS: "How much?"] To continue, is it not reasonable in rural areas, where one of the primary sources of income is the tourism industry, that people who work in that industry should receive a decent living wage, which would protect not only their rights but the rural economy generally?

Mrs. Bottomley

The Labour party never listens and never understands. It has heard representative after representative in the industry make it clear that a statutory minimum wage has an adverse effect on employment. Most people would rather have jobs than a statutory wage that meant that they were without work. This country has been incredibly successful in terms of having a low level of unemployment; there is more to do. The Labour party threatens a successful industry and the jobs and livelihood of our people.

Mr. Alan Howarth

Is not the right hon. Lady aware that her own Department's document on tourism, "Tourism: Competing with the Best", rightly makes the case for the need for quality and the need for training? Does she not understand that that quality of product will not be achieved on the basis of poverty pay and sweated labour?

Mrs. Bottomley

Nobody wants poverty pay and sweated labour; that is precisely the Labour party's argument. I have said time and again that the industry wants well-motivated, well-rewarded staff with proper training; that is precisely what our work has been setting in hand. Coercion and compulsion are not the way in which to achieve that goal. That has been made clear time and again; people do not do the right thing because they are coerced into it.

Mr. Bernard Jenkin

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on pointing out how destructive the encroaching tide of European legislation can be. May I point out, perhaps with some glee, what an effective recruiting agent to the Conservative cause the Labour party support for the social chapter is, because people realise how many jobs would be destroyed?

Mrs. Bottomley

My hon. Friend identifies one of the most powerful influences in current political debate. Time and again, when people in the tourism and hospitality industry talk about what they most fear, it is the interfering, regulating, domineering approach proposed from Brussels and supported by the Labour party.