HC Deb 12 November 1996 vol 285 cc142-3
6. Mr. Dunn

To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security what is the number of pensioners currently in receipt of occupational pensions. [1703]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Social Security (Mr. Oliver Heald)

The latest estimate is that there are some 6.5 million pensioners in receipt of at least one occupational pension. More than 20 million people have rights to a pension from an occupational scheme, including those whose pensions are in payment.

Mr. Dunn

Given that the sum of £600 billion invested in British private pension funds is more than the figure for the rest of Europe put together, will the Minister assure the House that we will resist all attempts to have our pension funds expropriated by the European Union to pay pensions to foreigners?

Mr. Heald

My hon. Friend highlights the success of the Government's policy in making our pensions system affordable. That achievement was recently applauded by the Select Committee on Social Security, and was reflected in OECD studies. It is vital that we ensure that our carefully won assets are not combined with other countries' liabilities£we should not end up having to pay the debts of pay-as-you-go schemes in Europe. The Government are committed to ensuring that£is the Labour party?

Mr. Wigley

Will the Minister resist the claptrap that we heard from the hon. Member for Dartford (Mr. Dunn), which creates unnecessary fears among pensioners that their pensions will be expropriated by people in other countries? There is no foundation whatsoever for that allegation, as the Minister well knows. Will he apply himself to the more serious question of the 45 per cent. of pensioner households in these islands that have no pension other than the state pension? What does he intend to do to restore the link that the Government destroyed in 1980?

Mr. Heald

The hon. Gentleman should know that, under the Government, pensioners' incomes have increased on average by 51 per cent. in real terms. With his new-found Euro-enthusiasm—which no doubt has something to do with his party's views and interests—he should bear in mind the fact that debt is an important factor in the convergence criteria under the Maastricht treaty. It is extremely important that this country is committed to protecting its interests—and the Government are.