§ 33. Mr. SteenTo ask the right hon. Member for Selby, representing the Church Commissioners, what assessment he has made of the impact of the losses made by the Church Commissioners on property investment between 1989 and 1992 on the salaries of the clergy. [1338]
§ Mr. AlisonFor many years, the proportion of the total stipends cost that was met by the commissioners has 19 fallen to accommodate rising clergy pension costs, of which I gave the hon. Member for Newport, West (Mr. Flynn) a few details. Reductions in the commissioners' contributions have been made to correct an over-distribution in earlier years, not as the result of loss. At the same time, clergy stipends have continued to increase at a rate higher than retail prices index increases.
§ Mr. SteenI think that the whole House would agree that losing £800 million on property speculation is a pretty successful thing for anyone to do. What have the Church Commissioners done with their financial advisers? Has the Charity Commission taken an interest in the £800 million that the Church Commissioners have lost over the years?
§ Mr. AlisonMy hon. Friend is not being his usual fair-minded and objective self. The so-called £800 million loss reflects a decrease in property value, which many real property holders and private householders encountered, but I am glad that £600 million of the book loss of about £800 million has already been recouped by changes in property values and by the improvement in the market since the basic loss.
§ Mr. BayleyMay I thank the right hon. Gentleman for the information that he gave the House on Wednesday during the local government debate that Hagg wood in Dunnington, of which the Church Commissioners own the freehold, has been taken off the market for a period? Is the wood, which is run on a 999-year lease by the Forestry Commission, still off the market and will he give an undertaking that, before any sale of the wood goes ahead, the Church Commissioners will meet the local authority to discuss public access to the wood?
§ Mr. AlisonThe hon. Gentleman and I, apart from being perambulators in the wood, had an exchange across the Floor of the House about this matter last week. The property is off the market at present. The Forestry Commission—the leaseholder—is entirely free to sell the lease if it so wishes. On the matter of consultation, I 20 cannot add anything to what I said to the hon. Gentleman last week, except that I will consider carefully the points that he has made.