HC Deb 18 March 1996 vol 274 cc2-4
2. Mr. John Marshall

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received urging him to hold a referendum on a Welsh Assembly. [19374]

The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. William Hague)

Since September last year, I have received four written representations about the possibility of a referendum on a Welsh Assembly.

Mr. Marshall

I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. Is he aware that when there was last a referendum on whether there should be a Welsh Assembly, the people of Wales voted four to one against, a vote in which Mr. Neil Kinnock opposed a Welsh Assembly? Was he not right then and is the Labour party not wrong now to oppose a referendum on a Welsh Assembly? Indeed, many Conservative Members think that there should be a referendum on a single currency as well.

Mr. Hague

My hon. Friend is right about what happened the last time there was a referendum on a Welsh Assembly. Only 12 per cent. of the electorate in Wales supported it; it was rejected by four to one. Perhaps that is why Labour Members do not have the confidence or the courage to say that they will ask the people about setting up an assembly in future. The extraordinary thing is that they plan to hold referendums in the English regions on whether there should be assemblies there, but not to consult the people of Wales.

Mr. Ron Davies

I hope that we have a very early opportunity to consult the people of Wales at a general election. We shall invite them to pass judgment on our proposals for devolution and, at the same time, on the record of this sleazy and incompetent Government.

Is it not the case that, on a referendum on devolution, as on so many other matters, the Government are split from top to bottom? They cannot agree on their policies, they do not know whether they believe in referendums and if they do believe in them, they do not know whether they should be binding. As the Secretary of State is supposed to represent our interests in Cabinet, will he now give us a straight answer? Does he believe that referendums should be used to settle constitutional issues?

Mr. Hague

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has made clear the Government's position, which is that there are constitutional issues on which a referendum might be appropriate. I wrote to the Leader of the Opposition some weeks ago asking for clarification of the Labour party's approach to the questions involved, and specifically with regard to a Welsh Assembly. I am still awaiting a reply—perhaps because the right hon. Member for Sedgefield (Mr. Blair) is awaiting a clear view on devolution policy from the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Davies), in which case he will be waiting for a very long time.

Mr. Sweeney

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it would be grossly irresponsible of the Government to sacrifice the sovereignty of Parliament at Westminster, in particular without the full-hearted approval of the British people? Will he bear that in mind in making representations at Cabinet level in favour of rejecting first, any idea of a Welsh Assembly, and secondly, any idea of a single currency? Will he assure the House that on no occasion would either of those principles be sacrificed without first holding a referendum?

Mr. Hague

I shall certainly bear in mind my hon. Friend's representations and I shall communicate them to my colleagues. The extraordinary aspect of the approach of Labour Members is that they had a referendum on devolution 16 years ago, which it is now their express intention to ignore.

Mr. Ieuan Wyn Jones

May I bring the Secretary of State back to the question? The hon. Member for Hendon, South (Mr. Marshall) asked whether the right hon. Gentleman had received representations urging him to hold a referendum. Why is he so frit about it? Why does he not accept the challenge put to him by my party to hold a multi-optional referendum now, before the election, on the issue of constitutional change in Wales? Once his policies have been rejected by the people of Wales, what right will he then have to demand a referendum?

Mr. Hague

I do not need to hold a referendum in Wales because I am not putting forward so daft a policy as to advocate the creation of a roomful of hot air and another lot of politicians who would cost the Welsh taxpayer a great deal of money for no practical gain.