§ 3. Mr. John MarshallTo ask the Secretary of State for Wales what progress has been made in awarding private finance initiative contracts in Wales. [35548]
§ Mr. Gwilym JonesWales has long led the way in the move towards private finance. We recently announced a PH contract for the OSIRIS information technology project for the Welsh Office, as well as for major new car parking for the University hospital of Wales.
§ Mr. MarshallDoes my hon. Friend agree that the second Severn bridge demonstrates the scope that the private finance initiative offers for improving the Welsh economy and increasing investment in infrastructure in Wales? Does he find it surprising, therefore, that although the Labour Front-Bench team commends the PFI, Labour Back Benchers are critical of it? Is that not an example of new Labour being endangered by the prejudices of old Labour?
§ Mr. JonesMy hon. Friend is right. We know that new Labour means new danger. We also know that new Labour means new speak. The Opposition do not catch up with what is going on in Wales. As well as the second Severn crossing, we have been leading the way for a long time with our kidney dialysis treatments; they have been dramatically improved by the infusion of private finance, which has taken us from one of the worst rates in Europe a decade ago to one of the best now.
§ Mr. Roy HughesDoes the Minister appreciate that we all say croeso to the private finance that is coming from LG of Korea, but does he agree that that is long overdue, given the heavy male unemployment following the mine closures and the thousands of redundancies in steel? Without interfering in the day-to-day running of that new company, would it be helpful if the company were given a gentle hint that, the more males it employs, the more it will ease our unemployment problem in Wales?
§ Mr. JonesI hesitate to go down that line, and I wonder that the hon. Gentleman—seeing the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Mrs. Clwyd) sitting next to him—did not hesitate at expressing such sexist preferences. I am glad to have his whole-hearted welcome for the success of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State in bringing that major new jobs initiative to south Wales—6,100 jobs for LG and possibly up to 20,000 in total as a result. Last week's announcement was a great day for Wales and that will continue, as long as we do not have the Labour party's policies.
§ Mr. Jacques ArnoldI was interested to note the success of the PH for the second Severn crossing for the people of Wales. What of the opportunities for new hospitals under the PH in Wales, particularly given our historic role of waiting in queues for the somewhat limited capital programme, which nevertheless is bigger under this Government than it used to be? What problems might there be in Wales if the Labour party tried to do everything it could to undermine the projects that are under way, just as it has done with the Darenth Park project in my constituency?
§ Mr. JonesOne of the most important PFI proposals in the project list is Baglan hospital, at £63 million. We intend to take that forward as quickly as possible under the private finance initiative. That project could be thwarted by a Welsh Assembly, as £63 million is only about 18 months' worth of the running costs of such an assembly. Since we know from the Opposition that no new spending would be financed other than out of existing moneys, would Baglan hospital be sacrificed in the interests of a Welsh Assembly?
§ Mr. Alex CarlileWill the Minister list the schemes in Powys that have benefited from the PFI, or that are likely to benefit from it in the next 12 months? [Interruption.]
§ Mr. JonesMy hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnor (Mr. Evans) reminds me of the Mid-Wales/Bronllys hospital. We are seeking to take forward 23 projects under the PH in Wales. I will happily give the hon. and learned Member any further details that I can.
§ Mr. Ron DaviesThe problem is that, while the Government are trying to take the schemes forward, there is precious little evidence of their being successful. Will the Minister cast his mind back to the first answer that he gave on this question when he said that the PFI contract for the improvements to University hospital, Cardiff had been let? I understand that that contract has not been let. There have been months of delay in letting it. As a result, there have been delays to the Geraint Evans memorial heart research centre, which is badly needed in Cardiff.
In the light of the Confederation of British Industry's recommendations to the Government last week, would it not make sense to scrap the PFI for all schemes involving less than £10 million and fund them by conventional means?
§ Mr. JonesThe hon. Gentleman was wrong on the last part of his question.
On the University hospital of Wales, the £6 million contract for the major car park expansion is going forward and I anticipate no difficulties in respect of it. The Geraint Evans centre, for which I have the greatest sympathy, is a separate matter and not directly connected.
The hon. Gentleman clearly has not read what the CBI said last week. I welcomed its report as a constructive contribution to fine-tuning the PH. It demonstrates a large measure of consensus and I especially welcome its support for the Government's efforts. Guidance has already been issued in response to some of its concerns.
§ 4. Mr. AingerTo ask the Secretary of State for Wales when he last met the chairmen and chief executives of NHS trusts in Wales to discuss finances for 1996–97. [35549]
§ Mr. Gwilym JonesMy right hon. Friend met national health service trust chairmen on 18 October 1995.
§ Mr. AingerSince then, the trust chief executives and chairmen have become aware of the settlement that is coming down from the Welsh Office through the Welsh health authorities to them. Is the Minister aware that in Dyfed Powys, which faces cuts of £7 million, all six chief executives have refused to sign the contract offered by Dyfed Powys health authority because they say that they cannot deliver the services for the price that is being offered? Unless the Welsh Office gives additional finance to Dyfed Powys health authority, especially in respect of writing off the debts of the predecessor Dyfed and Powys health authorities, there will be significant cuts in hospitals and community services throughout the area. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, as has happened in England in similar situations, health authority debts incurred in previous years should be written off?
§ Mr. JonesContracts between national health service trusts and any health authority, including Dyfed Powys, must be a matter for the two parties to the contracts. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will welcome the news that I have agreed a loan of £1.7 million to Dyfed Powys health authority which, it is expected, will enable it to achieve a balanced position by the year 1999–2000.
§ Dr. SpinkWhen my hon. Friend meets the chief executives and chairmen of NHS trusts, will he explain the positive benefits that market testing has brought to the financing of the health service in Wales in delivering real resources for patient care and that, if the Government were to follow the policies advocated by the Labour party, that money would be denied to the health service in Wales?
§ Mr. JonesMy hon. Friend is right. Market testing has enabled savings to be made which, in the case of the health service, have been passed on to the bedside for the benefit of the patients. My hon. Friend is right to point to the Labour party's dogma, not least the stricture from the shadow Chancellor that there will be no new spending unless it is financed from existing moneys. Where will the cuts be made for the sacred cows?
§ Mr. DafisDoes the Minister recognise that, if the cuts agreed to be necessary to deal with the present deficiency of money in Dyfed Powys materialise, there will be a furore in the area, especially in respect of the reduction, and possible closure, of community hospitals? Lack of revenue and the capital charging system are imposing serious strains on smaller district general hospitals such as Bronglais, which will not be able to keep up with capital development or replacement of equipment, much less with the introduction of new technology. Is the Minister aware that there are serious fears that we are into a spiral of decline in Bronglais which could lead to its being 770 downgraded from its status as a district general hospital? What does he intend to do about that and how can we prevent that scenario from materialising?
§ Mr. JonesNo, I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's hypothesis. The concept of capital charges has no bearing on the size of the hospital. The hon. Gentleman is being irresponsible in prophesying, no doubt for electoral purposes, some decline in Bronglais hospital. I should prefer that he look at the reality, such as the dramatic improvement in the out-patients waiting list across the Dyfed Powys area. That is what he ought to concentrate on.
§ Mr. MorganDoes the hon. Gentleman agree that the Secretary of State has been abjectly humiliated by the refusal of Gwent Community Health NHS trust and Gwent health authority to publish the report on Julie Sharma and the £35,000 redundancy payment that she received, even though the Secretary of State put on the working party his own independent observer, Professor Dimond, one of the leading experts in Britain on NHS law? Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the working party has been a complete shambles, in spite of his observer? What does the hon. Gentleman intend to do to ensure that the report is soon published in full and is available to all of us?
§ Mr. JonesThe hon. Gentleman starts off with the usual nonsense. Nothing of the kind has happened. Gwent health authority is pursuing the matter as strongly as possible. I am confident that it wants to ensure that a full, accurate account is available for all. I understand that it has set a deadline of 3 September to publish the report.