§ Mr. Chris Davies (Littleborough and Saddleworth)I beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to establish elected Parliaments in each of the regions of England; to define the powers and authority of these bodies; and for related purposes.The passage of this Bill will demonstrate that the House is determined to reverse the creeping centralisation of power that has turned Britain into the most centralised state in Europe—a country in which decision-taking authority is concentrated in the hands of a small group of Ministers and where no attempt is made to provide a balance to centralised power by harnessing the ideas, initiative and enthusiasm of people throughout the regions.From the outset, I want to make it clear that the establishment of regional government as proposed in the Bill will not result in the creation of an additional layer of bureaucracy. Far from it; the objective of the Bill is to achieve a dramatic reduction in the powers and cost of central Government. The process of decision taking by the centre will be replaced by one of decision taking by the regions.
For example, the strong and effective tier of regional government proposed in the Bill will eliminate the need for the Department of the Environment in its present form. Its work will be almost entirely superseded. The powers allocated to regional government are such that the roles of the Departments of Transport, Trade and Industry, and Employment and Education will also be significantly diminished. While the establishment of regional parliaments will bring under democratic authority tiers of government that in practice already exist at regional level, major changes in the departmental structure of central Government will also be required.
The Bill will have three far-reaching effects. First, it will enshrine in our system of government the principle of subsidiarity, enabling decisions to be made at the lowest practical level and as close as possible to the people whom they affect. That is a principle much praised by Ministers when they speak of Britain's place in Europe, but it is a case of "Do as I say, not as I do" in our domestic affairs; for there the principle is honoured only by its absence. It is a nonsense and a disgrace that people in regions such as mine, the north-west—which has a population of 7 million and is larger than four nation states in the European Union—have so little influence on decisions that affect them and them alone.
Secondly, the Bill provides the seedcorn for the growth of regional centres of economic influence, a step of the utmost importance if all parts of the nation are to benefit fully from our membership of the European Union and the introduction of a single currency. For 150 years, the tendency of economic influence to gravitate towards the centre has been demonstrated by the decline of our provincial cities in relation to London and financial centres elsewhere. Decisions affecting the livelihoods of entire communities are too often made by people with no knowledge of or sympathy with those localities. The tendency towards centralisation of power is likely to be accelerated by the adoption of a single currency, and it is therefore important that we take steps now to strengthen the influence of our regions on economic decision making.
211 Thirdly, the Bill provides a crucial step in the long-overdue modernisation of our stagnating democracy and outdated institutions, whose failure is one reason why the country has been in relative decline for so long. If we look across Europe, we see nation states all of which have decentralised their decision making. There are 20 regional governments in Italy, 16 Länder in Germany, 17 autonomous communities in Spain and 22 regional governments in France, all created since the end of the last war. In their respective localities, they command great public support. Far from dividing their countries or threatening their unions, they provide bonds of democratic legitimacy and regional pride that draw their nations together.
The regional parliaments that the Bill will establish in England will have general authority to act in any field not specifically designated for central or local government. They will play a major role in the distribution of capital and revenue funding to local government and the powerful quangos that exist at present—development corporations, English Partnerships and the like. They will have strategic planning powers, authority to encourage economic development and responsibilities for training, further education, transport planning and infrastructure development.
Not all those areas of authority will be assumed immediately by regional parliaments. In Spain the regional communities are being encouraged to develop at their own pace, and the Bill provides for regional governments in this country to take powers from central Government at a time of their choosing. The Bill recognises that the development of the competence and authority of the new institutions will be a gradual process, and that people must be given time and freedom to work out what they consider to be the most appropriate hierarchy of democratic administration. The result is bound to vary from region to region.
Because the Bill provides for the establishment of a new constitutional settlement and a genuine sharing of authority between central and regional government, the regional parliaments will have recourse to the courts if central Government seek to usurp their authority to determine policy on matters in regard to which autonomy rightly rests with them. The Bill provides for the appointment of commissions to facilitate the creation of the new bodies, able to determine the boundary of each region and the locations of the regional seats of government. Uniformity of size is not an objective. Perhaps the new bodies will choose to follow the boundaries of the Government's existing eight administrative areas; perhaps not. They are certainly already large by European standards.
It is also important to proceed by consent. Diversity is perfectly acceptable if it encourages a strong identification between regional parliaments and the people whom they represent. For example, the regional government of Saarland in Germany deals with a population of just 1 million. Such special arrangements might be appropriate in areas like Cornwall. We could even set up a mini-state in Macclesfield if that would please the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Winterton).
Charged as they are with emotions of local pride, those will not be easy tasks. But they have been undertaken in many countries before ours and I have no reason to 212 suppose that our solutions will be any less successful. For the time being, I shall avoid speculating about the appropriate seat of regional government in the north-west.
The commissions are also charged with the task of making arrangements for the election of members of the regional parliaments. Hon. Members will not be surprised to hear that the specified method of election in this Bill is required to ensure that voting intentions are reflected on a broadly proportional basis. From the beginning, membership of the regional parliaments will accurately reflect the electorate, which this House has long failed to do.
Importantly, the Bill provides for the establishment of an interregional finance commission and formal consultative procedures between the regional parliaments, the Treasury and this House. Although the parliaments will have some tax-raising powers, a large element of their funding will be provided by the Exchequer, and the distribution of funds between regions must be equitable.
In constitutional terms, it would not be too extreme to describe the Bill's effect as revolutionary, as it will fundamentally alter the role of central Government. Although it may be regarded as radical in Britain, however, it would he considered as no more than pragmatic—even tame—by our European partners. That reflects the fact that our Government institutions are trapped in the past and stifle new ideas.
The European Union of which we are part is a Europe of the regions. It is time that we, too, looked to our regions and harnessed the initiatives of their people to find new solutions to the problems that we face. It is time that we brought our constitution and democracy up to date, and placed the principles of decentralisation and subsidiarity at the core of our system of government.
§ Mr. Jacques Arnold (Gravesham)I oppose the Bill because it is the most appalling piece of rubbish that has been put before the House for many years.
The hon. Member for Littleborough and Saddleworth (Mr. Davies) has not been here for two minutes and he wants to saddle our constituents with yet another level of government and of taxation. I do not know about his area, but my constituents would be saddled with a parish council, a district council, a county council, a regional council, this Westminster Parliament, which is the fount of authority, and also with the European Parliament, the Commission and all the rest. The Liberal Democrats would land us with six levels of government, all with tax-raising powers.
The practical questions that should have been answered by the proposal were not even put forward. It is Liberal party policy to have a regional council for Cornwall, but we have not heard what county councillors—perhaps Liberal ones—from Cornwall say about that. Who would be responsible there? Where would the regional council be sited in my area? Perhaps it would be in Reading, tucked around the other side of London.
Does the hon. Gentleman have such a lack of faith in his Liberal colleagues on Kent county council that he proposes a regional council, which would take legal action against his Liberal colleagues on Kent county council? I would have a little sympathy for that idea, because their management of Kent county council is so incompetent that 213 they should be taken to court. The solution to our ills is for people to elect decent councils, not be saddled with yet another level of government as the hon. Gentleman proposes.
The hon. Gentleman referred to an interregional finance commission, but did not make it clear what that would do, other than contain yet more politicians who would squander public money. I have never heard such absurd nonsense as this proposal to saddle my constituents with more taxation, more politicians and more restrictions. I hope that the House will chuck out this ridiculous Bill.
§ Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 19 (Motions for leave to bring in Bills and nomination of Select Committees at commencement of public business):—
§ The House divided: Ayes 29, Noes 61.
214| Division No. 20] | [3.45 pm |
| AYES | |
| Alton, David | Loyden, Eddie |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Lynne, Ms Liz |
| Beith, Rt Hon A J | Mackinlay, Andrew |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Maclennan, Robert |
| Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) | Maddock, Diana |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute) |
| Corbyn, Jeremy | Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby) |
| Davies, Chris (L'Boro & S'worth) | Taylor, Matthew (Truro) |
| Flynn, Paul | Tyler, Paul |
| Foster, Don (Bath) | Wallace, James |
| Godman, Dr Norman A | Wareing, Robert N |
| Gordon, Mildred | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Harvey, Nick | |
| Jones, leuan Wyn (Ynys Môn) | |
| Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Kirkwood, Archy | Mr. Simon Hughes and |
| Llwyd, Elfyn | Mr. Nigel Jones. |
| NOES | |
| Alexander, Richard | Martin, David (Portsmouth S) |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Mills, lain |
| Allason, Rupert (Torbay) | Mitchell, Sir David (NW Hants) |
| Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E) | Moate, Sir Roger |
| Austin-Walker, John | Montgomery, Sir Fergus |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Nicholson, David (Taunton) |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Batiste, Spencer | Riddick, Graham |
| Beggs, Roy | Robinson, Peter (Belfast E) |
| Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes | Shepherd, Colin (Hereford) |
| Budgen, Nicholas | Skinner, Dennis |
| Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Carlisle, John (Luton North) | Smyth, The Reverend Martin |
| Carrington, Matthew | Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) |
| Cope, Rt Hon Sir John | Spink, Dr Robert |
| Day, Stephen | Stephen, Michael |
| Dover, Den | Stewart, Allan |
| Dunn, Bob | Taylor, Rt Hon John D (Strgfd) |
| Forsythe, Clifford (S Antrim) | Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E) |
| Fox, Rt Hon Sir Marcus (Shipley) | Thomason, Roy |
| Gallie, Phil | Thompson, Sir Donald (C'er V) |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Tredinnick, David |
| Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Hargreaves, Andrew | Whitney, Ray |
| Harris, David | Wilkinson, John |
| Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W) | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Jessel, Toby | Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'fld) |
| Jopling, Rt Hon Michael | Yeo, Tim |
| Key, Robert | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Maitland, Lady Olga | Sir Cranley Onslow and |
| Marshall, John (Hendon S) | Mr. Jacques Arnold. |
§ Question accordingly negatived.