ENTITLEMENT TO CHILD BENEFIT (Hansard, 22 February 1996)

§ Mr. Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne, North)
I beg to move amendment No. 9, in page 6, leave out lines 39 to 41 and insert—

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
With this, it will be convenient to discuss also amendment No. 10, in clause 12, page 7, line 9, leave out from 'means' to end of line 11 and insert—

'(a) for the purposes of section 8, a person who under the 1971 Act requires leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom (whether or not such leave has been given) and who has not been recognised as a refugee; and

(b) for the purposes of section 9, a person who under the 1971 Act requires leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom who—

(i) is not a person who has been granted indefinite leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, or

(ii) is not a person who has been recognised as a refugee, or

(iii) is not a person who has been granted exceptional leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, or

(iv) is not a dependant of a person falling within the exceptions set out in sub-paragraphs (i), (ii) or (iii) above;
whether or not such leave has been given.'.

§ Mr. Henderson
When clause 12 was discussed in Committee, there was much concern about the definition of an immigrant and who would be caught under the provision. Clause 12 gives the Secretary of State power to make that definition by order. There was considerable anxiety that, some persons, who are effectively British citizens—having lived here for most of their lives, having paid taxes for 20 or 30 years, having sometimes served with British forces and having made a major contribution 531 to the economy—could suddenly be classified as immigrants under the new definition and, in some circumstances, no longer be entitled to housing assistance or child benefit. There was a lengthy discussion about just what circumstances would apply in relation to clauses 10 and 12.
Amendments Nos. 9 and 10 would introduce minimum definitions of those who would not be excluded. The three categories would be: a person who has been granted indefinite leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom … a person who has been recognised as a refugee … a person who has been granted exceptional leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom and the dependants of persons in those categories.
I do not know whether the Government are yet able to issue a precise definition of an immigrant for the purposes of the Bill, covering all circumstances. Perhaps the Minister has something up her sleeve. If not, and there is still the confusion that there was in Committee, there is a case for providing at least a minimal classification of who would not be covered by the definition of an immigrant in clause 12.

§ The Minister of State, Home Office (Miss Ann Widdecombe)
If there was any confusion in Committee, it could only have been in the mind of the hon. Gentleman. There was a very full debate in Committee, the substance of which I repeat now. The purpose of clause 10 is to bring child benefit into line with the other social security benefits for people from abroad, as set out in the Social Security (Persons from Abroad) Miscellaneous Amendments Regulations 1995.
Amendment No. 9, would subvert that purpose. It would fix the entitlements of some immigrants in primary legislation, whereas regulations would continue to be needed to prescribe entitlement for others.
I do not see why Opposition Members are so intent on removing consistency from the legislation. We made very clear in Committee how we intend to use the powers under clause 10 and we have given the House details of the groups who will retain entitlement to child benefit. I am prepared to run through them again but, to save time, the Opposition probably do not want me to do that.

§ Mr. Henderson
Can the hon. Lady confirm that the categories mentioned in the amendments are covered one way or another by her intentions?

§ Miss Widdecombe
I was about to do just that—perhaps the hon. Gentleman will hold on. I take it that he does not want me to read out the list of those who would be entitled and those who would not.

§ Mr. Henderson
If the hon. Lady can answer yes to my question, I shall excuse her from that onerous task.

§ Miss Widdecombe
We have given the House details of the groups who will retain entitlement to child benefit. The hon. Gentleman should now listen very carefully. They will include all the people from abroad specified in amendment No. 9 and more besides. The additional groups are all those—as I explained in Committee—covered by reciprocal and EC agreements.
It seems to us logical and consistent to have all the conditions for entitlement to child benefit for people from abroad set down in one place in regulations. We oppose 532 amendment No. 10 for precisely the same reason. We made clear, on Second Reading and in Committee, the categories of persons subject to immigration control that we intend to exclude from housing entitlement under clause 9. The main ones are those who are at present without leave and those with limited leave granted on the basis that they will have no recourse to public funds. Asylum seekers will not have access to council housing because that is a long-term resource which should be used for people entitled to live here. Asylum seekers will also be ineligible for assistance under the homelessness legislation, unless they have claimed asylum on arrival, are awaiting a decision from the Home Office and are in priority need.
I regret to have to tell the Opposition that, anyway, their amendments are defective. Amendment No. 10 would merely insert a superfluous list of categories into the definition of the term "immigrant" without substantially restricting the scope of clause 9. The same defect is also present in amendment No. 9.

§ Mr. Henderson
I find it strange that the hon. Lady is describing our amendments as defective. The Government have had to make dozens of changes to the original draft of the Bill. Had the Government proposed a more cogent Bill and given more explanation, it would have been possible to identify the category of immigrant referred to in clause 12 in primary legislation and not to have had to leave it to an order that the Secretary of State may issue from time to time.
On the basis of the hon. Lady's commitment that the categories intended to be covered by amendments Nos. 9 and 10 are included in her list, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.