HC Deb 03 December 1996 vol 286 cc787-8
11. Mr. McAvoy

To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many managers there are in the national health service currently; how many there were in 1989; and if he will make a statement. [5620]

Mr. Malone

There were 26,700 managers in the NHS in 1995—the latest year for which figures are available. The figure includes 6,660 practice managers employed by general practitioners, and excludes managers who need to be qualified health care professionals to do their job. Directly comparable information is not available for 1989.

Mr. McAvoy

Is the Minister proud of the fact that the Government have cut the number of nurses by 50,000 and replaced them with 20,000 new senior managers? Does he accept that that simple fact reflects clearly the twisted priorities of the Government? Does he accept that those twisted priorities are the reason why more than 1 million people are waiting for treatment, dozens of trusts are on the verge of bankruptcy and ever more people are forced to sign up for private health insurance?

Mr. Malone

The Government are proud of the fact that there are 55,000 more nurses and 25,000 more doctors now than when we took office, and that we have cut waiting lists since implementing our reforms. In 1990, 200,000 people were waiting for more than 12 months, and that figure is now down to 15,000. Activity in the NHS is up by 33 per cent., whereas the total management figure, as a percentage of staff, is up by about 3 per cent. The NHS is built on those achievements, and the hon. Gentleman does no good by ignoring them.

Mr. Bill Walker

Does my hon. Friend agree that the resources of the NHS are its staff, its equipment and its buildings? Does he further agree that it is how those resources are managed that will affect patients, and that, unless they are managed effectively and properly, all the qualified people in the world would not be able to assist patients?

Mr. Malone

My hon. Friend is right. He understands that the genesis of the changes to the national health service was the Griffiths report, in 1985–86, which revealed that there was a great management deficit in the NHS. The Labour party seems to think that an organisation that employs approximately 1 million people and has an annual budget in the United Kingdom of about £40 billion per annum can somehow run services on its own. That has proved not to be the case. As my hon. Friend said, more patient care is being delivered today than ever before, because of the structure and proper management put in place by the Government.

Mr. Foulkes

Is it not the case that if health services are reorganised as they were in Ayrshire—where three trusts and one board are now doing what one board managed to do previously—we shall have four times as many managers? Is that not a crazy way in which to run a health service?

Mr. Malone

I will say only that when we reorganised the health service to abolish regional health authorities—to cut out a layer of bureaucratic administration—the hon. Gentleman voted against it.