HC Deb 30 April 1996 vol 276 cc885-6
1. Mr. Jon Owen Jones

To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what representations he has received concerning the level of revenue support grant settlement in 1996–97 with respect to Westminster council. [25671]

The Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. John Gummer)

I have received a number of representations, including some that point out that, when compared with a city such as Liverpool, Westminster has been much less generously treated by the Government than it was under the previous Labour Government.

Mr. Jones

Will the Secretary of State confirm that if every council got the same help that Westminster gets, 336 out of the 358 councils would be able to pay a rebate and that 10 would be able to pay a rebate of more than £900 per council tax payer? Is not that political largesse completely unjustifiable by anyone outside the Conservative party? It is a political fix and he should admit it and be ashamed.

Mr. Gummer

What I will confirm is that if the same figures had been arranged under a Labour Government, more people would have been able to do more than that. That shows how ridiculous the hon. Gentleman's proposition is. If all councils were given the same money as Tower Hamlets, there would not be an area in the country that would not be able to do much better than he suggested, but the Labour party controls Tower Hamlets, so it does not like to say that.

Mr. Brooke

As the working population of my constituency exceeds the national average by a factor of almost 20 and exceeds that of any other constituency by a factor of five, will my right hon. Friend accept my representation that I am glad that he has noticed that my two authorities are different in category and not only in degree?

Mr. Gummer

My right hon. Friend may also have noticed that all independent observers point out that the system that we use is objective and the most sophisticated in the world. The only person who does not believe that is the hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras (Mr. Dobson), who said that he does not accept what experts say. That is because they never agree with him.

Ms Armstrong

Does not the right hon. Gentleman recollect that the experts disagree that Westminster is the fourth most deprived area and say that this is a serious matter that the Government should address? Should not the Government address the fact that, if Trafford got the same council tax support as Westminster, it would be able to give every council tax payer £527 back; Rochdale would be able to give £303 back; and Oldham would be able to give £145 back? The Westminster skew is a fiddle; everyone knows it and will show it on Thursday.

Mr. Gummer

It is odd that, when the hon. Lady was asked about it, she said that she would not like to promise major changes in the system that we use. She is condemned out of her own mouth. She knows that what she says is not accepted by any of the Labour-controlled local authority organisations and that no one from any political party who understands the system agrees with her. She knows that she is trying to mislead the country. The country knows it, too, and will show it on Thursday.

Mr. Redwood

Does my right hon. Friend know that Wokingham district council is receiving no revenue support grant this year, yet, for the third successive year, Conservatives have offered a cut in the council tax while offering improved services? Unfortunately, the Liberals have forced through a 13 per cent. increase in the council tax and a deterioration in services. Does not that show that Thursday matters and that people must vote Conservative on Thursday for lower taxes?

Mr. Gummer

My right hon. Friend is too kind to the Opposition parties—it is true not just in Wokingham, but throughout the country, that it costs £225 a year more to have a Labour council than a Conservative council. What is more, the Audit Commission shows that people get less for paying more. They pay more with Labour and get worse services. That is what the hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras is trying to hide with his wholly spurious comments about Westminster.