HC Deb 29 April 1996 vol 276 cc758-60
9. Mr. Jon Owen Jones

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what talks he has had with representatives of the farming and meat industry in Wales concerning BSE; and if he will make a statement.[25640]

Mr. Hague

My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, the hon. Member for Cardiff, North (Mr. Jones), and I have met representatives of the farming and meat industry on a number of occasions and my hon. Friend met representatives of the abattoir industry and Welsh Food Promotions Ltd. on 17 April. My hon. Friend is today attending the Agriculture Council in Luxembourg with my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.

Mr. Jones

Will the Secretary of State confirm that, even though the carcase disposal scheme for cull cattle was due to start today, there are as yet no licensed abattoirs and there are no designated centres for collection yet? The farmers in Wales are confused and angry that the Government's inaction and incompetence are clearly the main reasons why the beef ban still remains. Three weeks after the European Union agreed to pay for the scheme, there is no sign of it being implemented.

Mr. Hague

The 30-month scheme will start this week, as was intended—it is likely to start around the middle of the week. It has been necessary to have an extensive consultation process—the industry would not have wanted it any other way. It is a complicated scheme and it is important that it commands confidence and general support. Our priority is to restore market confidence at home and abroad, and we shall continue to do that, in frequent and close consultation with the industry in Wales.

Mr. Biffen

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many farmers who are privileged to be Welsh use Oswestry market? Is it his judgment that the Government's slaughter programme—covering cull cows and other categories—consigns to death and incineration an enormous number of cattle that show no sign of BSE? How does he think that that will restore public confidence in beef eating?

Mr. Hague

My right hon. Friend will know that many of the actions that the Government are taking are based on scientific recommendations. In the case of the scheme that my right hon. Friend mentioned, the Government are going further than the scientific recommendations—indeed, that is the cause of his anxiety. It is clear from what scientists have said to us that BSE is most likely to occur in older cattle, so the removal from the food chain of cattle of 30 months and older is a confidence-building measure—it was specifically asked for by the National Farmers Union.

Mr. Ieuan Wyn Jones

I congratulate the Secretary of State on acceding to representations from Opposition parties for a Welsh Office ministerial level representative to attend today's meeting of the Council of Ministers in Luxembourg, which is good news. Farmers are extremely worried about the delay in the implementation of the slaughter policy scheme.

I shall remind the Secretary of State of two fair questions posed by the hon. Member for Cardiff, Central (Mr. Jones). First, when will we be told about the designated collection points, bearing in mind the geographical difficulty of taking animals to those points in many parts of rural Wales? Secondly, how many abattoirs in Wales have been licensed for the procedure? It is crucial that there should be no further delay in giving the farmers the information that they need so that the schemes can be fully implemented as soon as possible.

Mr. Hague

I take the hon. Gentleman's point about the need for farmers and others in the industry to know further details of the schemes as soon as possible. However, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will understand that it is better for the schemes to be introduced properly than to be introduced in such haste that they do not work properly. Officials in the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Welsh Office are working hard, in consultation with the industry, to ensure that all the information for which the hon. Gentleman asks is given as soon as possible. They will continue working extremely hard until that information is available.

Mr. Ron Davies

The Secretary of State's answers have no credibility. He said in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, Central (Mr. Jones) that the scheme would be operating mid week. He has just said in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys MÔn (Mr. Jones) that he hopes to be able to make the announcements. How can he expect the agricultural industry and associated industries in Wales to respond to a scheme that is due to start on Wednesday or Thursday this week if he has not even taken the basic steps of identifying the collection centres and licensing the abattoirs? His answers have no credibility.

The right hon. Gentleman clearly does not understand that the Government's confusion and delay in handling the BSE issue is one of the reasons why they are now viewed with such distrust and derision by the country at large. Does he seriously expect co-operation from Europe in lifting the export ban when domestic policy is in such a shambles and when the Foreign Secretary is writing around soliciting individual Cabinet members to produce schemes to disrupt the Union? Is it not the case that Ministers are now too busy appeasing warring factions within the Conservative party to provide effective and decisive government? Why on earth should the country's vital economic interests be sacrificed because of internal wrangling in the Conservative party?

Mr. Hague

It is a bit rich for Labour Members to criticise the Government over the BSE issue when the hon. Member for Peckham (Ms Harman) did so much wanton damage to the beef industry. The group that is greeted with the most derision and distrust by farmers comprises one or two Opposition Members who have performed in the same way as the hon. Lady.

The hon. Gentleman would not want us to carry through the process without consulting the industry closely, and I am sure that he would not want it done in such haste that it did not work properly. That is why the consultations have been carried out.