§ 7. Mr. FlynnTo ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is his estimate of the percentage of prisons that are free of illegal drug use. [25043]
§ The Minister of State, Home Office (Miss Ann Widdecombe)Mandatory drug testing has been implemented in all prisons, on schedule, by 31 March. The data it will yield will provide, over time, a good indicator of the level and pattern of drug misuse in prisons. However, because the random testing programme involves the testing of only 10 per cent. of a prison's population every month, even when all the tests prove negative, it will still not be safe to claim that an entire prison is free of drug misuse.
§ Mr. FlynnThat is a disgraceful non-answer. I suggest that the Minister read my question again and the letter that I sent to her Department pointing out that, in my county of Gwent, in two cases, on two different days, convicted offenders were excused prison—which they most certainly would have had—for the serious offences that they had committed because the judge decided that, as ex-drug users, they would be exposed to more drug temptation in prison than they would be in the community. It seems, therefore, that drug users get a better chance of not going to gaol. In what percentage of prisons is drug use endemic? If the Minister does not know the answer, I can tell her what her right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State told me before—that drug use is endemic in 98 per cent. of gaols. Why is this the case after 17 years of Tory government?
§ Miss WiddecombeIf the hon. Gentleman wanted an answer to that question, perhaps he should have asked it. The hon. Gentleman asked me:
what … percentage of prisons … are free of illegal drug use.I have clearly explained to him that, even if all the random tests came out negative, it would be impossible to make the claim he asks me to make because all the other prisoners would not have been tested. However, it is well worth pointing out to him—as he referred to the figure for Welsh prisons—that, in the 14 tests carried out in Cardiff in February, there were no positive results. Perhaps he would like to congratulate the Government on that.Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would like to congratulate the Prison Service on the wide range of initiatives that it has introduced to combat drugs—such as mandatory drug testing, additional searching provisions, closed visits and the increased use of dogs. Will the hon. Gentleman welcome those efforts and acknowledge that they are making a real impact on drug use in prisons? Will he preserve his scorn for those who try to get drugs into prisons, rather than use it on those who are doing their level best to combat drugs—and doing so very successfully?
§ Mr. John GreenwayDoes my hon. Friend agree that there can be absolutely no rehabilitation of offenders in 575 custody so long as they have access to drugs, so removing drugs from our prisons is the single most important priority that the Government could have in ensuring that people do not re-offend when they leave custody? In that respect, does my hon. Friend think that we can learn a great deal from the boot camps in the United States of America, which are no-drug zones? Will she ensure that similar detention centres in Britain are also no-drug zones?
§ Miss WiddecombeI hope that, one day, we shall be able to ensure that there is no prison, whether for young offenders or for adult offenders, in which there are drugs, and I described the measures that we were undertaking to try to move towards that.
My hon. Friend is right; drugs in prisons are a major evil. That is why it is important not only to take measures against the supply of drugs, but to try to combat the demand. I therefore welcome the fact that 80 prisons now have detoxification units, that we have many programmes designed to tackle drugs behaviour and that we are using education, counselling and medical help in prisons to try to get prisoners out of the habit—which most of them have before they enter prison.
§ Ms LynneThe Minister is aware that there is a serious drugs problem at Buckley Hall prison in Rochdale, and that many of those drugs are coming over the perimeter fence. That is one of the reasons why the perimeter fence is being strengthened at the moment. Is she aware, however, that on Tuesday 23 April, at 2 pm, four prisoners, using construction equipment left lying about by the contractors, escaped over the prison fence? Is it not about time that she listened to the views of the people of Rochdale and instigated a full public inquiry into the running of Buckley Hall prison by Group 4?
§ Miss WiddecombeFirst, the hon. Lady says that there is a serious drugs problem at Buckley Hall. It is worth recording that, when the last series of tests was carried out, 19 prisoners were tested and only one was found positive. Although that is one too many, it is not indicative of what she describes as a serious problem.
Secondly, with respect to the hon. Lady's comments on Buckley Hall, I answered at great length in an Adjournment debate, and proved that she is taking a most unfair line, that she is insulting staff—many of whom are probably her constituents—and that it is high time that she recognised the aspects in which Buckley Hall performed better than its public service comparators.
§ Mr. KeyCan my hon. Friend confirm that there is no lack of determination on the part of the Government or the Prison Service to eliminate drugs from prisons? Can she confirm that the root problem is that, as a result of court decisions, personal contact between prisoners and visitors is now compulsory, and that internal body searches are not allowed unless a doctor is present and the prisoner consents, which means that, for all practical purposes, substances can be taken into prison and prison staff have no option but to allow those substances to be used?
§ Miss WiddecombeMy hon. Friend is right to identify visitors' contacts with prisoners as being an aspect of major concern. That is why there is now increased use 576 of monitoring by cameras at visiting time, why there is increased use of closed visits where prisoners are found to have obtained drugs, why there are strict search procedures and why dogs are often used at visiting times.
My hon. Friend is right to identify that. He is not right, however, to say that prison staff have no choice but to allow substances to be used. It might reassure my hon. Friend to know that there is a healthy record of detection and removal of substances and—perhaps most important of all—prosecution of guilty visitors.
§ Mr. George HowarthWill the Minister give us an assurance that the mandatory drug testing scheme will be reviewed to discover what, if any, improvements may be made to it? Will she also give the House an assurance that the proposed cuts of 14.5 per cent. in real terms that are due to take place during the next three years will not affect the many effective, well-run drug rehabilitation programmes that are already going on in our prisons? Will she ensure that those programmes are protected? I am sure that the whole House agrees that it is important that people who are into taking drugs are helped to get out of them, especially when in prison.
§ Miss WiddecombeThe hon. Gentleman can of course have our reassurance that mandatory drug testing will be continued, that it will be kept under review so that, if improvements can be made, they will be made, and that we shall monitor carefully the results, especially when they have been up and running for long enough to allow us to perceive a steady pattern. I have pleasure in giving the hon. Gentleman that assurance.
The hon. Gentleman also asked about resources. Currently, about £5.1 million is allocated to drug rehabilitation and about £5.3 million is allocated to mandatory drug testing.
§ Mr. Ian BruceDoes my hon. Friend agree that the work being done by prison officers throughout the United Kingdom, and especially in my constituency of South Dorset, tackling the drug problem is good news for everyone concerned, not least the prisoners? Will she take further measures, if necessary, to ensure that we can search people going into prisons, and that we can prosecute them with the full force of the law so that we stop people involved in that type of trafficking, which has been going on for many years?
§ Miss WiddecombeMy hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have fairly stringent searching, and when we have reason to believe that there is something untoward we have very stringent searching. We can refuse access, and we can—and do—call in the police with a view to prosecution when we find visitors trying to pass substances of that sort. I assure my hon. Friend that we shall seek to improve those procedures and that we are thoroughly committed to them.