HC Deb 30 October 1995 vol 265 cc10-1
8. Mr. Ieuan Wyn Jones

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on his recent visit to Catalonia. [37836]

Mr. Hague

Wales has been developing economic and cultural relations with Catalonia since 1991. My visit coincided with the Wales in Catalonia festival when, in addition to leading a trade delegation, I was pleased to meet regional President Pujol, his Minister for Industry and Energy, and the Mayor of Barcelona, Mr. Maragall.

Mr. Jones

When the Secretary of State met President Pujol, did it cross his mind that President Pujol is a politician who is directly elected by the people of Catalonia, and that that is in stark contrast to the position of the Secretary of State for Wales and his party, who have no democratic mandate from the people of Wales? Does he realise that that denial of democracy and the running of Wales by quango-isation mean that support for a Parliament of Wales is now at an unprecedented level?

Mr. Hague

I suppose that all sorts of things crossed my mind, but it certainly crossed my mind that Wales has huge advantages. We have an expanding economy, a willing work force, fantastic scenery and a wonderful culture. Wales can hold its head up high in the world and we should not ruin it with an unnecessary assembly, which would be a room full of hot air.

Mr. Jenkin

Did my right hon. Friend have a moment to compare Catalan unemployment levels with those in Wales? Would he draw any conclusions from that?

Mr. Hague

I do not have the Catalan figures on the tip of my tongue, but my hon. Friend will find that Spanish unemployment in general is two to three times that in the United Kingdom. Unemployment in Wales has been brought down to the UK average over the past 18 months for the first time in 70 years, which is a considerable achievement. That compares well with almost everywhere else in Europe because of the lower tax levels, less regulation and good industrial relations that the Government have brought about.

Mr. Donald Anderson

Did the Secretary of State note the degree of regional pride in Catalonia arising from its autonomy in respect of both Spain and the external world? Did he notice that the cities in Catalonia have a degree of financial independence and responsibility that makes our cities in Wales extremely jealous?

Mr. Hague

I certainly noticed the regional pride, but the hon. Gentleman will agree that a great deal of pride exists in Wales. People are not prevented from having that pride just because we are not changing the constitutional arrangement in the United Kingdom. I hope that the new unitary authorities will prove a successful development in local government and that, over time, more functions can be transferred to local government. My predecessor did that with several items of decision making and I hope to do the same.