Mr. O'NeillI beg to move amendment No. 49, in page 8, line 29, at end insert—
'(2A) In the period before the relevant date the Director shall:(a) monitor the effect of the granting of a licence under subsections (3) to (5) below on such persons as in his opinion are appropriate; and(b) consult such persons and organisations as appear to him to represent the interests of persons affected by the granting of a licence under those subsections, and such other persons as he considers appropriate, on the effects of granting such a licence.(2B) No licence shall be granted under section 7A(1)(a) of the 1986 Act (other than by virtue of subsections (3) to (5) below) until the Secretary of State has laid a report before both Houses of Parliament indicating—
- (i) the results of the monitoring and responses to the consultation referred to in subsection (2A) above;
- (ii) the effect, in his opinion and in the opinion of the Director, of the granting of licences under subsections (3) to (5) below and Schedule 5 to this Act in the period before the relevant date; and
- (iii) the reasons why, in his opinion, it is in the interests of all persons affected that licences under section 7A(1)(a) of the 1986 Act should be granted.'.
§ In some respects, the amendment is one of the most pertinent with which we shall deal because it relates to what has become known as the pilot areas—those areas in which the competitive gas market will be tested. The amendment is an attempt to require the director general to monitor the effect of granting a licence and to consult organisations and people who appear to represent the interests of the persons affected by the granting of the licence. The amendment also states that no licence shall be granted until a report has been laid before both Houses of Parliament indicating the result of the monitoring and the responses to the consultation.
§ The only other example of a deregulated gas market comes from Canada and it must be said that the Canadian experience was not wholly successful. As a consequence, many people are anxious about the exercise, and that is evidenced by the Government's testing the water. We welcome the attempt to choose areas in the south-west of England that are among the most controversial. If the exercise is to have any worth, it is vital not only that the pilot areas are studied properly but that the House has the right to pass judgment on whether the scheme should proceed once the pilot has been completed.
§ Some of my hon. Friends may take the view that it does not really matter because, by the time the reports are completed, there will be another Government and we will take the decisions about those matters. That is as may be, but we must ensure that proper monitoring techniques are put in place and that the director general is able to take full account of them. As I have said, the experience in other countries has not been wholly satisfactory. The Canadian experience caused great difficulty, but perhaps that will not be replicated here with such ferocity in view of the differing climatic conditions in that country.
§ Nevertheless, the experience could create anxiety among communities who, even now, are extremely vulnerable. Therefore, we believe it is important to ensure that proper monitoring takes place and that the monitoring is reported correctly. At the end of the day, the House should be able to pass judgment on the findings of the report and decide whether we wish to proceed to grant the rest of the licences across the United Kingdom. That approach has wide support. A number of consumer groups—containing people who are in touch with gas consumers—have heard of and are conscious of the problems that could arise; therefore, it is essential that a proper assessment is made of the monitoring process.
§
I can do no more than quote paragraph 60 of the Select Committee on Trade and Industry report, which states:
It would be pointless to have a transitional period unless there is a full assessment of its consequences and wide consultation, including parliamentary scrutiny, before further steps are taken.
That is what the amendment would achieve. We want that in relation to the designated pilot areas. That is why the House should have the right to stop and take stock before it takes this big step for the whole British energy market. For those reasons, we are happy to table amendment No. 49.
§ Mr. HarveyI support the amendment. I moved one along similar lines in Committee. The amendment is a welcome, if overdue, innovation in Government practice that the .Government have chosen to run a pilot scheme. 103 If they had done so in relation to many other areas of legislation, it would have saved them and the public a great deal of pain.
It would serve the Government's purpose far more comprehensively if, having taken the decision to run a pilot scheme, their assessment criteria went far wider than simply technical aspects, which seem to be the scope of their intention to date. The amendment's proposal of giving both Houses a chance to scrutinise the pilot scheme and to assess it is much to be applauded.
§ Mr. EggarThe Government have previously made it clear that the phased transition to a nationwide competitive system will provide an opportunity to test the necessary technical and administrative systems for the balancing of gas and the transfer of customers. That is essentially a technical operation. That is why we are starting with an area of 500,000 customers in the south-west and moving up to one of 2 million. We want to find out whether additional problems exist as we expand and go nationwide.
The purpose of the pilot scheme and then of the expanded pilot is to allow British Gas TransCo and competing gas suppliers to iron out any problems with their systems while they are still operating on a relatively small scale. That relates particularly to computer and other such systems.
We must be clear, however, that the pilot is not an attempt to test the principle of whether competition will go ahead. That decision has already been made, on Second Reading. An approach that left the question of principle in doubt would cast a shadow of uncertainty over the industry, both onshore and in the North sea. That would be in no one's interests because it might mean that suppliers would not make the investment needed for competition to be a success. The scheme must be planned with a degree of certainty.
In particular, such an approach would make the necessary adjustment of North sea supply positions and contracts impossibly unpredictable. It would be wrong to try to reopen the principle of competition through what I would call the back door, as it would bring in considerable uncertainty, which is the last thing that we need in terms of planning large investments.
Of course, the director general will clearly wish to monitor the progress of competition and expect to seek feedback from consumers and suppliers of their experience of competition during the transitional phase. That was one of the criteria that we asked the areas to comment on when they applied to be pilots. If that monitoring showed that licence conditions were not having the desired effect, the director general could make proposals to change them. The on-going monitoring process will enable Ministers and the director general to report appropriately to the House and to the other place about progress. It is certainly my intention to do just that.
Mr. O'NeillThat answer was wholly unsatisfactory. The Minister said that ultimately it is all down to computers and a few pipes, and that if the report is disastrous only a little fine tuning will be required and everything can be changed. We are discussing the big step of reconstructing the energy market and a potentially 104 dangerous fuel, using a number of companies untested in the UK, and many untested worldwide, in the selling of gas.
We are told that if the House had the right to veto further developments until it was satisfied that necessary changes and improvements had been made, that would create such a shadow of uncertainty that there would be fear of investing and an adjustment to North sea contracts. I imagine that we will be debating amendments Nos. 40 and 41 to schedule 5 tomorrow, relating to the consequences of changes to North sea contracts. The Minister will be playing a different tune then.
If monitoring is not undertaken effectively, reports are not presented in the appropriate way and the House is not given the opportunity to pass judgment, the deregulation of the gas market could founder. If the proposal is to survive and is to command the respect and support of both sides of the House and, more important, command consumer confidence, it is essential that monitoring in pilot areas assumes greater significance than simply suggesting that the tweaking of a computer or changing a piping system will resolve all problems.
This matter is of the utmost importance and I am not prepared to withdraw the amendment. We will press the amendment to a Division because, in essence, the House has the right to be able to say, in a matter which is in many respects a leap in the dark, that if we get it wrong with the pilot projects, the proposal should not proceed. The amendment is of sufficient significance for the House to have the opportunity to vote on it. I urge my hon. Friends to join me in the Lobby to support it.
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 229, Noes 269.
107| Division No. 147] | [9.53 pm |
| AYES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Carlile, Alexander (Montgomery) |
| Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) | Chisholm, Malcolm |
| Allen, Graham | Clapham, Michael |
| Alton, David | Clark, Dr David (South Shields) |
| Anderson, Donald (Swansea E) | Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) |
| Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale) | Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Clelland, David |
| Austin-Walker, John | Clwyd, Mrs Ann |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Coffey, Ann |
| Barnes, Harry | Cohen, Harry |
| Barron, Kevin | Connarty, Michael |
| Battle, John | Cook, Frank (Stockton N) |
| Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret | Cook, Robin (Livingston) |
| Bell, Stuart | Corbett, Robin |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Cousins, Jim |
| Bennett, Andrew F | Cummings, John |
| Benton, Joe | Cunliffe, Lawrence |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE) |
| Berry, Roger | Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr John |
| Betts, Clive | Dafis, Cynog |
| Blunkett, David | Dalyell, Tam |
| Boateng, Paul | Davidson, Ian |
| Bradley, Keith | Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral) |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) |
| Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E) | Denham, John |
| Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E) | Dewar, Donald |
| Burden, Richard | Dixon, Don |
| Byers, Stephen | Dobson, Frank |
| Caborn, Richard | Donohoe, Brian H |
| Callaghan, Jim | Dowd, Jim |
| Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) | Dunnachie, Jimmy |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth |
| Cann, Jamie | Eagle, Ms Angela |
| Eastham, Ken | McNamara, Kevin |
| Enright, Derek | MacShane, Denis |
| Etherington, Bill | Madden, Max |
| Fatchett Derek | Mahon, Alice |
| Faulds, Andrew | Mandelson, Peter |
| Field, Frank (Birkenhead) | Marek, Dr John |
| Fisher, Mark | Martlew, Eric |
| Flynn, Paul | Meacher, Michael |
| Foster, Rt Hon Derek | Meale, Alan |
| Foster, Don (Bath) | Michael, Alun |
| Fraser, John | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Fyfe, Maria | Milburn, Alan |
| Galbraith, Sam | Miller, Andrew |
| Galloway, George | Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby) |
| Gapes, Mike | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Garrett, John | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Gerrard, Neil | Morley, Elliot |
| Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John | Morris, Rt Hon Alfred |
| Godman, Dr Norman A | Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) |
| Godsiff, Roger | Mowlam, Marjorie |
| Gdding, Mrs Llin | Mudie, George |
| Gordon, Mildred | Mullin, Chris |
| Graham, Thomas | Murphy, Paul |
| Grant, Bernie (Tottenham) | Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon |
| Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) | O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire) |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | O'Brien, William (Normanton) |
| Grocott, Bruce | O'Hara, Edward |
| Gunnell, John | Olner, Bill |
| Hain, Peter | O'Neill, Martin |
| Hall, Mike | Orme, Rt Hon Stanley |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | Paisley, The Reverend Ian |
| Harvey, Nick | Patchett, Terry |
| Heppell, John | Pearson, Ian |
| Hill, Keith (Streatham) | Pendry, Tom |
| Hinchliffe, David | Pike, Peter L |
| Hodge, Margaret | Pope, Greg |
| Hoey, Kate | Powell, Ray (Ogmore) |
| Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld) | Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E) |
| Hood, Jimmy | Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) |
| Hoon, Geoffrey | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Howarth, George (Knowsley North) | Purchase, Ken |
| Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Hoyle, Doug | Radice, Giles |
| Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) | Randall, Stuart |
| Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) | Raynsford, Nick |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport E) | Reid, Dr John |
| Hutton, John | Rendel, David |
| Illsley, Eric | Robertson, George (Hamilton) |
| Ingram, Adam | Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW) |
| Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) | Robinson, Peter (Belfast E) |
| Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) | Rooker, Jeff |
| Jamieson, David | Rooney, Terry |
| Janner, Greville | Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) |
| Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side) | Rowlands, Ted |
| Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) | Ruddock, Joan |
| Jones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW) | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Jowell, Tessa | Sheerman, Barry |
| Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| Kennedy, Charles (Ross.C&S) | Shore, Rt Hon Peter |
| Kennedy, Jane (Lpool Brdgn) | Short, Clare |
| Khabra, Piara S | Simpson, Alan |
| Kilfoyle, Peter | Skinner, Dennis |
| Lestor, Joan (Eccles) | Smith, Chris (Isl'ton S & F'sbury) |
| Lewis, Terry | Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) |
| Litherland, Robert | Snape, Peter |
| Livingstone, Ken | Soley, Clive |
| Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) | Spearing, Nigel |
| Lynne, Ms Liz | Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) |
| McAvoy, Thomas | Steinberg, Gerry |
| McCartney, Ian | Stevenson, George |
| McCrea, The Reverend William | Sutcliffe, Gerry |
| Macdonald, Calum | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| McFall, John | Taylor, Matthew (Truro) |
| Mackinlay, Andrew | Timms, Stephen |
| McLeish, Henry | Tipping, Paddy |
| McMaster, Gordon | Touhig, Don |
| Vaz, Keith | Worthington, Tony |
| Walker, Rt Hon Sir Harold | Wray, Jimmy |
| Watson, Mike | Wright, Dr Tony |
| Wigley, Dafydd | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Williams, Rt Hon Alan (SW'n W) | |
| Williams, Alan W (Carmarthen) | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Winnick, David | Mr. Dennis Turner and |
| Wise, Audrey | Mr. Jon Owen Jones. |
| NOES | |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Dunn, Bob |
| Aitken, Rt Hon Jonathan | Durant, Sir Anthony |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Dykes, Hugh |
| Allason, Rupert (Torbay) | Eggar, Rt Hon Tim |
| Amess, David | Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Arbuthnot, James | Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) |
| Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv) | Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) |
| Ashby, David | Evans, Roger (Monmouth) |
| Atkins, Robert | Evennett, David |
| Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E) | Faber, David |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Fabricant, Michael |
| Baker, Rt Hon Kenneth (Mole V) | Fenner, Dame Peggy |
| Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset) | Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) |
| Baldry, Tony | Fishburn, Dudley |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Forman, Nigel |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Forsyth, Rt Hon Michael (Stirling) |
| Bates, Michael | Forth, Eric |
| Batiste, Spencer | Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman |
| Bellingham, Henry | Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley) |
| Bendall, Vivian | Freeman, Rt Hon Roger |
| Beresford, Sir Paul | French, Douglas |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Gale, Roger |
| Booth, Hartley | Gardiner, Sir George |
| Boswell, Tim | Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan |
| Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) | Garnier, Edward |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia | Gill, Christopher |
| Bowis, John | Gillan, Cheryl |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes | Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair |
| Brandreth, Gyles | Gorman, Mrs Teresa |
| Brazier, Julian | Gorst, Sir John |
| Bright Sir Graham | Grant,Sir A (SW Cambs) |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) |
| Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) | Greenway, John (Ryedale) |
| Browning, Mrs Angela | Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) |
| Bruce, Ian (Dorset) | Grylls, Sir Michael |
| Budgen, Nicholas | Gummer, Rt Hon John Selwyn |
| Burns, Simon | Hague, William |
| Burt, Alistair | Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) |
| Butcher, John | Hampson, Dr Keith |
| Butler, Peter | Hannam, Sir John |
| Butterfill, John | Hargreaves, Andrew |
| Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln) | Harris, David |
| Carrington, Matthew | Haselhurst, Alan |
| Carttiss, Michael | Hawkins, Nick |
| Cash, William | Hayes, Jerry |
| Channon, Rt Hon Paul | Heald, Oliver |
| Clappison, James | Heath, Rt Hon Sir Edward |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Heathcoat-Amory, David |
| Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey | Hendry, Charles |
| Coe, Sebastian | Hicks, Robert |
| Conway, Derek | Hill, James (Southampton Test) |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham) |
| Cope, Rt Hon Sir John | Horam, John |
| Cormack, Sir Patrick | Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Couchman, James | Howard, Rt Hon Michael |
| Cran, James | Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A) |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) | Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford) |
| Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) | Howell, Sir Ralph (N Norfolk) |
| Day, Stephen | Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W) |
| Deva, Nirj Joseph | Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) |
| Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen | Hunter, Andrew |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas |
| Dover, Den | Jack, Michael |
| Duncan, Alan | Jackson, Robert (Wantage) |
| Duncan-Smith, Iain | Jenkin, Bernard |
| Jessel, Toby | Robinson, Mark (Somerton) |
| Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey | Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) |
| Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) | Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent) |
| Jones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr) | Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela |
| Jopling, Rt Hon Michael | Ryder, Rt Hon Richard |
| Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine | Sackville, Tom |
| Kirkhope, Timothy | Sainsbury, Rt Hon Sir Timothy |
| Knapman, Roger | Scott, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Knight, Greg (Derby N) | Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian |
| Kynoch, George (Kincardine) | Shepherd, Colin (Hereford) |
| Lait, Mrs Jacqui | Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge) |
| Lamont, Rt Hon Norman | Shersby, Michael |
| Lang, Rt Hon Ian | Sims, Roger |
| Lawrence, Sir Ivan | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| Legg, Barry | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Leigh, Edward | Soames, Nicholas |
| Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark | Speed, Sir Keith |
| Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) | Spencer, Sir Derek |
| Lidington, David | Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) |
| Lightbown, David | Spink, Dr Robert |
| Lilley, Rt Hon Peter | Spring, Richard |
| Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham) | Sproat, Iain |
| Lord, Michael | Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) |
| Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas | Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John |
| MacGregor, Rt Hon John | Steen, Anthony |
| MacKay, Andrew | Stephen, Michael |
| Maclean, David | Stern, Michael |
| McLoughlin, Patrick | Stewart, Allan |
| McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick | Streeter, Gary |
| Madel, Sir David | Sumberg, David |
| Maitland, Lady Olga | Sykes, John |
| Major, Rt Hon John | Tapsell, Sir Peter |
| Malone, Gerald | Taylor, Ian (Esher) |
| Mans, Keith | Taylor, John M (Solihull) |
| Marlow, Tony | Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E) |
| Marshall, Sir Michael (Arundel) | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Martin, David (Portsmouth S) | Thomason, Roy |
| Mates, Michael | Thompson, Sir Donald (C'er V) |
| Mawhinney, Rt Hon Dr Brian | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Mellor, Rt Hon David | Thornton, Sir Malcolm |
| Merchant, Piers | Thurnham, Peter |
| Mills, Iain | Townend, John (Bridlington) |
| Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) | Townsend, Cyril D (Bexl'yh'th) |
| Mitchell, Sir David (NW Hants) | Tracey, Richard |
| Moate, Sir Roger | Trend, Michael |
| Monro, Sir Hector | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Montgomery, Sir Fergus | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Moss, Malcolm | Viggers, Peter |
| Needham, Rt Hon Richard | Waldegrave, Rt Hon William |
| Nelson, Anthony | Walden, George |
| Newton, Rt Hon Tony | Walker, Bill |
| Nicholls, Patrick | Waller, Gary |
| Nicholson, David (Taunton) | Ward, John |
| Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Norris, Steve | Waterson, Nigel |
| Onslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley | Watts, John |
| Ottaway, Richard | Wells, Bowen |
| Patnick, Sir Irvine | Whitney, Ray |
| Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Whittingdale, John |
| Pawsey, James | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth | Willetts, David |
| Pickles, Eric | Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'fld) |
| Porter, Barry (Wirral S) | Wolfson, Mark |
| Porter, David (Waveney) | Wood, Timothy |
| Portillo, Rt Hon Michael | Yeo, Tim |
| Powell, William (Corby) | Young, Rt Hon Sir George |
| Redwood, Rt Hon John | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Renton, Rt Hon Tim | Mr. Sydney Chapman and |
| Robathan, Andrew | Dr. Liam Fox. |
§ Question accordingly negatived.
§ Further consideration adjourned.—[Mr. Conway]
108§ Bill, as amended (in the Standing Committee), to be further considered tomorrow.
§ Mr. Gerald Bermingham (St. Helens, South)On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Some days ago, I tabled a series of questions to the Home Secretary about a contract issued in respect of a computer for the probation service. Those questions were duly accepted, and are listed as Nos. 186, 198, 209 and 231 on the Order Paper today.
It is now after 10 o'clock and, in accordance with the normal conventions, those questions which were due for answer today should have been notified to me either by way of a written answer or by being tabled for the press. Neither has happened. It is clear that the answers to those questions will be in Hansard tomorrow, and it is also clear that the Home Office—officials of which I have been trying to contact all night—has deliberately avoided answering the questions on the named day. The reason it has done so is undoubtedly suspicious. We are talking here about a £20 million computer contract which may well be—
§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Geoffrey Lofthouse)Order. I think that I can help the hon. Gentleman. He must take the matter up with the Minister concerned, as it is not a matter for the Chair at this stage.
§ Mr. BerminghamFurther to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. I have ruled on the hon. Gentleman's point of order.
§ Mr. Berminghamrose—
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. I have ruled on it, and there can be no further points of order on that matter.
§ Mr. BerminghamOn a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerIs it the same point of order?
§ Mr. BerminghamNo. Several times in the past, the Chair has ruled that it is the convention that Members—
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. The Chair has just ruled, and there can be no further points of order on that subject.