HC Deb 16 March 1995 vol 256 cc1069-71

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

The research paper provided by the Library states:

This Clause enables the Secretary of State to determine the remuneration, allowances and pensions of members of the Corporation". Why was it necessary to propose the change that the clause would introduce, or is it a change? What was the motive in seeking to bring about the change and then removing the requirement for Treasury consent

in relation to such matters"? Perhaps I can understand the proposal to some extent because my hon. Friend the Member for Clydebank and Milngavie (Mr. Worthington) and I were previously advancing related arguments on a more general basis. Why should determination of the remuneration, allowances and pensions of members of the corporation be changed in the way that is proposed?

Mr. Baldry

The members of the board of the CDC at present are all non-executive directors. Unlike all other bodies, the chief executive is not a member of the board. Therefore, there is no control over the level of remuneration of the chief executive. Under the proposals set out in the Bill, the chief executive will become a member of the board. As a result, and consistent with other public bodies, there will be some control over the remuneration of the chief executive.

We do not envisage any increase in overall spending on the CDC as a consequence of those measures. We get extremely good value from the CDC in terms of the contributions that non-executive members make to the board. The clause is designed to ensure that arrangements are brought into line and are consistent with those that prevail in all other public bodies.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

Do I understand that the exercise of control in national health service trusts, for example, is no different from that in the CDC when it comes to the chairman's remuneration? In an odd way, an NHS trust is carrying out a similar function.

Mr. Nigel Forman (Carshalton and Wallington)

Are we on clause 3, Mr. Morris?

The Chairman

Yes, we are.

Mr. Forman

I am interested in subsection (5). I ask my hon. Friend the Minister to explain why it might be necessary to insert the "following paragraph", which is 5A. What special circumstances does he envisage in which it might be appropriate for the Secretary of State to approve compensation for someone who is ceasing to be a member of the corporation? Surely it is honour enough to be a member of the corporation. I am a great respecter of the CDC. Why should someone require or deserve compensation when ceasing to be a member of it?

Mr. Bayley

I have been searching through the latest copy of the CDC's report and accounts to discover information about the remuneration of directors—

Mr. Baldry

It is on page 72.

Mr. Bayley

I thank the Minister.

Mr. Baldry

I believe that I have dealt with the points raised by the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours).

With regard to the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Mr. Forman), clause 3 ensures that the CDC is entirely consistent with regard to board structures, board remuneration and Treasury controls in respect of every other similar public body. There may well be circumstances when a person ceases to be a member of the board, and if the Secretary of State deems that there are special circumstances, in which it would be right that that person should receive compensation, that is a matter for the discretion of the Secretary of State. We do not envisage any immediate or likely circumstance when that will arise, but that brings the position into line with provisions in similar Bills.

6 pm

Mr. Forman

I hope that there is no question of having rolling two or three-year contracts for those people. My hon. Friend the Minister will be aware that in the private sector generally, under the influence of the Cadbury committee and so on, there is a strong move away from that kind of thing.

Mr. Baldry

It is pity that my hon. Friend is a late arrival to this debate. The tragedy is that we are in danger of not paying full tribute to the members of the CDC board who give very valuable service for very little remuneration. If my hon. Friend considers the annual report, he will see that all the existing directors of the CDC are non-executive directors. They make a considerable contribution and considerable public effort for a token remuneration. We are simply ensuring that the CDC is on a par with any other similar organisation within the public sector.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 4 and 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule agreed to.

Bill reported, without amendment; read the Third time, and passed.

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