HC Deb 14 March 1995 vol 256 cc679-80
5. Mr. Harry Greenway

To ask the Secretary of State for Health which administrative posts in the NHS are normally filled by nurses, doctors or other medically qualified persons; which are normally filled by people with other than medical qualifications; and if she will make a statement.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Mr. Tom Sackville)

All NHS trust boards. must have a qualified medical director and a suitably qualified nurse as director of nursing. Otherwise, it is a matter for individual NHS bodies to decide what skills, expertise and experience are required.

Mr. Greenway

Does my hon. Friend agree that medical people are best placed to understand the medical needs of hospitals and other facilities in the NHS? Will he make it a priority to appoint them to administrative posts, where their medical experience can be used, and please can we have the matron back in hospitals?

Mr. Sackville

On the last point, many of my hon. Friends used to show a marked predilection for a strong woman in charge. I have no objection to the person in charge of nursing, or of any other responsibilities, being styled as matron or, indeed, patron.

Mrs. Beckett

Does the Under-Secretary recognise that not only has the number of those described as general and senior managers quadrupled since the Government's changes were introduced but the pay bill for those posts has trebled? Has the Under-Secretary seen the recent figures produced by the National Health Service Consultants Association, which show that, overall, the administrative costs of the health service are twice what they were before the Government introduced their so-called reforms? At a time when we are constantly being told that there is not enough money to provide essential care, does that not show how the Government waste public money?

Mr. Sackville

I remind the right hon. Lady that a large proportion of the additional managers have been reclassified from their previous posts and the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, East (Mr. Brown) has admitted as much. I remind her also that half all managers come from a clinical background. If the right hon. Lady is worried about this, she should look to see that activity in hospitals has increased enormously. Outcomes have improved and waiting lists are down as a result of good management of hospitals. Hospitals do not manage themselves; they need good, committed managers.

Mr. Lord

My hon. Friend's response to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, North (Mr. Greenway) was tinged with a certain amount of humour, which is always the case when matron's name is raised in the House. Does my hon. Friend agree that the matron was probably the most important and effective post in hospitals throughout their history? It was a sad day when the post of matron was abandoned. If the Minister wants to do something that will have a major effect on the way our hospitals are run, he could go back to his office this afternoon and write a letter to every hospital in the country, recommending that they reintroduce the post of matron without delay. Will he consider doing that?

Mr. Sackville

Every hospital has the opportunity to recreate the post of matron, and some are doing so.