HC Deb 07 March 1995 vol 256 cc143-6 3.31 pm
Mr. Gary Streeter (Plymouth, Sutton)

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. In view of the serious allegations made in the Daily Express yesterday about vote rigging by Labour party hopefuls and the exploitation of ethnic minorities, have you received a request from Labour Front-Bench Members to change the business of the House today, so that that fresh example of Labour sleaze can be fully debated by the House?

Madam Speaker

No, I have not.

Several hon. Members

rose

Madam Speaker

Order. I shall take points of order from alternate sides.

Mr. George Foulkes (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Rather than that, I wondered whether there was any chance of getting a statement from the Government about the future of the Consett steel works?

Madam Speaker

I think that the hon. Gentleman knows the answer to that.

Mr. David Shaw (Dover)

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Is it in order for a Member of the House who sits on a Select Committee to be interviewing his own clients? That is happening on a Select Committee of the House at 4.15 this afternoon. It seems wrong that the Chairman of that Select Committee should be interviewing his own clients, because there may be a conflict of interests.

Madam Speaker

I was not aware that the interview was with the Chairman's own clients. I do not know the procedure on such a matter, but as the hon. Member has made a serious allegation, I must obviously look into the situation.

Mr. Shaw

rose

Madam Speaker

Order. I know exactly the point of order, and I shall now deal with it.

Mr. Peter Hain (Neath)

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Can you advise me whether there is a conflict of interest in the Chancellor investigating the Barings collapse, when that bank contributed some £700,000 to Tory party funds?

Madam Speaker

I think that we have seen the end of points of order, which are not at all points of order but points of view.

Mr. Alan Duncan (Rutland and Melton)

rose

Madam Speaker

The hon. Member raised a point of order with me two days ago. Does he have another one?

Mr. Duncan

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Will you consider inviting the hon. Member for Glanford and Scunthorpe (Mr. Morley) to apologise to the House? He has publicly declared his intention to flout the rules and conventions of the House, which now appears to be Labour party policy.

In a public statement, he has demanded that the Committee stage of the Wild Mammals (Protection) Bill be packed 100 per cent. with supporters of the Bill. That, if it is anything, is legislative fascism. May I invite you to ask him to apologise to the House?

Madam Speaker

If any hon. Member is flouting the rules and procedures of the House, I will take that seriously. I shall look at what the hon. Gentleman has said. If he made a statement to that effect—

Mr. Duncan

rose

Madam Speaker

Order. The hon. Member does not need to give me a copy. I have a set of Clerks who will provide me with copies of everything I want, thank you very much.

Mr. D. N. Campbell-Savours (Workington)

On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker

Order. Points of order are getting totally out of hand. They are no longer points of order. Hon. Members seem to think that we are still on television. That has quite a lot to do with it.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

rose

Madam Speaker

Order. I am on my feet. I know the dodge on Tuesdays. Hon. Members want to get on television when they have not been able to ask a question.

I will take only genuine points of order. They had better be genuine points of order from now on.

Mr. Harry Greenway (Ealing, North)

Further to the point of order raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Mr. Shaw), Madam Speaker. As one who will be sitting on—

Madam Speaker

Order. I have dealt with that point. Will the hon. Member resume his seat? The hon. Member for Dover raised an issue with me. It will remain with me, and I will deal with it. Thank you.

Mr. Andrew F. Bennett (Denton and Reddish)

Will you confirm that it is the tradition of the House that, when a Bill receives its Second Reading and goes to Committee, the Committee reflects the views of the House when it votes? Given that the Wild Mammals (Protection) Bill on Friday had the unanimous support of the House, it therefore follows that the Committee should contain Members who reflect the views of the House.

Madam Speaker

The hon. Gentleman is quite correct.

I am able now to respond to the point of order that was raised by the hon. Member for Dover (Mr. Shaw). Perhaps I can make it quite clear. I understand that the Chairman of the Employment Committee declared his interest at the outset of the relevant inquiry.

Mr. David Shaw

My point was not that the issue was not declared; it was declared. I was not suggesting that it was not. My point was about the conflict of interest. The Committee is examining whether directors of companies are capable of presenting their case properly. The Chairman of the Committee has an interest in a business that deals with the presentation of directors' issues and cases. Therefore, there is a direct conflict of interest between his parliamentary and his business roles.

Madam Speaker

That is for the Committee to determine. The Chairman of the Committee declared his interest. If the Committee was not satisfied, it would have required him to leave the Chair during that period. It did not do so, and the Chairman declared his interest quite properly.

Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)

rose

Mr. Campbell-Savours

Would you confirm, Madam Speaker—

Madam Speaker

Just a moment.

Mr. Skinner

Would you agree, Madam Speaker, that, if we investigated the Chairmen of all the Select Committees that are chaired by Tory Back Benchers, we would almost certainly find a conflict of interest in nearly every case, and would be without a Chairman in every one of those Committees?

Madam Speaker

I certainly would not agree with the hon. Gentleman, and I think that we have more positive things to do, especially this afternoon.

Mr. Oliver Heald (Hertfordshire, North)

Have you had a request from a Treasury Minister to make a statement today about the Audit Commission, and whether there will be a full public inquiry into the grants-for-votes scandal which is sweeping Labour councils at the moment?

Madam Speaker

If any Minister had been seeking to make a statement today, it would have been on the Annunciator screen by 1 o'clock.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

Would you confirm that it was the Leader of the House of Commons who tabled the resolutions, which we all approved, on the question of conflict of interest in Select Committees, following reports produced in 1992 by the Select Committee on Members' Interests, that the report was carried unanimously, and that the Chairman of the Select Committee involved is abiding by the resolution that was carried by the Commons?

Madam Speaker

I have no doubt about that, and I assumed that hon. Members who take an interest in the proceedings and the activities of the House were aware of all that, and should not be raising these issues on points of order.