Peace Process (Hansard, 29 June 1995)

§ 3. Mr. Winnick
To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the latest position over the peace process. [29803]

§ The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Sir Patrick Mayhew)
We wish to establish beyond doubt that the permanence of peace is truly intended. Therefore, we continue to press Sinn Fein and the loyalist parties alike to address the decommissioning of arms and to continue with exploratory dialogue to that end.

§ Mr. Winnick
Can the Secretary of State explain what he meant in his letter last week in The Times when he said that the future prospects of Northern Ireland have already been much damaged by the quarrelling among 1068 Tory Members of Parliament? Is the Secretary of State satisfied that whoever happens to be elected leader of the Tory party in due course—be it in the first, second or any other ballot—will be committed fully to the peace process and to the framework document? Does he agree that the peace process is far too precious to be sacrificed through Tory quarrelling and civil war in the party ranks?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman, very uncharacteristically, is engaging in party political games on a subject that is far too serious for that. Of course everybody in the present Government is fully committed to what has come to be called the peace process, and of course it is the case that instability in the position of any Prime Minister having the commitment demonstrated by my right hon. Friend has a deleterious effect. The hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well what I mean. If he does not, he can read my article in The Daily Telegraph today.

§ Rev. Ian Paisley
No doubt the Secretary of State read his own piece in The Daily Telegraph today, but did he read the report of the release of an IRA prisoner who was found guilty in Germany? Did he read the outrageous remarks made by the judge, who said that prisoner was being released although guilty because of the connotations of the peace process? The judge said also that the Roman Catholic people of Northern Ireland had a desire to bomb their way into a united Ireland and that there was never any religious or civil liberty in Northern Ireland for Roman Catholic people. Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman do something to correct the German authorities about the present situation?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
It is important that the true facts about Northern Ireland, its democratic status and the applicability of the rule of law there should always be made clear at home and abroad. As to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, tempting though it is I do not believe that I should depart from my rule of not commenting on judicial decisions.

§ Mr. Trimble
Can the Secretary of State assure the House and the people of Northern Ireland that the peace process and political considerations will not be allowed to interfere with the normal operation of the criminal justice system—so that when, as is likely now that we have had peace for some time, witnesses are prepared to come forward and give positive identification in respect of specific criminal acts, the normal processes will be followed? If so, there would be no further repetitions of the reported incident in which a leading member of the IRA identified as the trigger man by a witness was released in breach of normal procedures, simply because the police feared that the Northern Ireland Office would be upset if a major provo were charged.

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
The answer to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question is, of course. The remaining parts of his question proceed on a number of premises that I do not accept. The Northern Ireland prosecution system, as I recall from the many years that I had responsibility for it, is entirely independent and impartial. The Law Officers of the Crown are there to ensure that it remains so. I am certain that my hon. and learned Friends will do so.

§ Mr. Hunter
Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware of widespread support for his insistence that the 1069 provisionals cannot take part in substantive talks unless there is acceptable progress on decommissioning and for his assertion that substantive talks can start without the involvement of the provisionals?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
I gave that assurance. A certain amount of turmoil resulted from a remark that I made when doorstepped a couple of days ago. I have looked at the transcript and it seems entirely orthodox, and in fact rather trite. It was put to me that Mr. McGuinness has said that there was not a snowball's chance in hell of decommissioning until a political settlement had occurred—to which I replied, if that was the case, the political talks process would continue in the absence of Sinn Fein. I cannot believe that anybody in the House wishes that I had replied otherwise.

§ Dr. Hendron
Does the Secretary of State agree that the peace process cannot be considered meaningfully without taking account of prisoners? I make no apology for raising this matter over and over again. Many believe, as I do, that Private Lee Clegg will be released shortly. If that happens, will the Secretary of State ensure that Patrick Kane, Sean Kelly and Michael Timmons, who did not kill anyone, will be released forthwith? While the right hon. and learned Gentleman is doing that, will he consider the question of Irish prisoners in Britain, have them returned to Northern Ireland and look with generosity at the whole question of republican and loyalist prisoners? Some of us, at least in Northern Ireland, could truly say that there but for the grace of God go I, depending on the environment at that time.

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
The hon. Gentleman raises five or six items, on each of which, perfectly properly, he feels strongly. He cannot expect me to deal with them all.
It is extremely important to note the distinction of the jurisdiction of the Secretary of State under statute in the case of a power to release upon licence someone who has been sentenced to life imprisonment, and the absence of any jurisdiction on the part of the Secretary of State to second-guess the finding of a court as to guilt or innocence.
I must not comment in response to the hon. Gentleman's question upon the other case that he mentioned, and I do not propose to do so. These matters arouse great passions and feelings and it is important that they should be dealt with in a cool and analytical way. That is not to ignore the human aspects of any of them.

§ Mr. Peter Bottomley
Will my right hon. and learned Friend accept an endorsement of his remarks following the death of Senator Gordon Wilson, whose contribution to an end of violence was an example to all people? Will he accept also that although there is reason to be cautiously pessimistic about the continuation of the period of no more deaths since the tragic murder of Frank Kerr of Newry, Gordon Wilson's courage in meeting the IRA, although he thought afterwards that it had been a failure, may have been one of the triggers for success?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
I endorse what my hon. Friend has said. I think that anyone who knows the family of Senator Gordon Wilson, or even of it, will wish to extend profound sympathy to his widow. He was a wonderful man. He left no avenue unexplored in a search for peace 1070 after having demonstrated most extraordinary human qualities following the death of his daughter in Enniskillen.

§ Ms Mowlam
May I, on behalf of the Opposition, pay tribute to the life and work of Gordon Wilson and offer our condolences to his wife, Jean? My hon. Friend the Member for Clydebank and Milngavie (Mr. Worthington) is not with us this afternoon because he is attending Gordon Wilson's funeral in Enniskillen on behalf of the Opposition.
Does the Secretary of State agree that political progress will be achieved only through dialogue, and that it is imperative that all parties involved avoid vetoes and retain flexibility to create a climate in which progress can be made on the basis of the joint framework document?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
First, we would like to offer warmest congratulation ns to the hon. Lady on her marriage. It is important in politics, as in marriage, to seek consent and to try to avoid imposition. It is by that simple rubric that both in our marriage and in our politics the Government will proceed.

§ Mr. Robathan
The House knows how well my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State and his team have done in carrying forward the peace process. However, should some or all terrorists return to violence, is my right hon. and learned Friend able to assure the House that the security forces are in a position to reinforce as necessary, that their intelligence is up to speed and that they will not be taken by surprise should there be a return to violence?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
My hon. Friend raises important questions. I can answer in the affirmative. Nothing that has been done to adjust the security response to the threat since the ceasefires is irreversible. There can be a reverse in a short number of days, and that is important. Of course we want to reach the point when, by actions as well as words, we can be confident that the permanence of peace is what is truly intended.