Fraud (Hansard, 19 June 1995)

§ 8. Mr. Lidington
To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security what steps his Department is taking to reduce social security fraud. [27607]

§ Mr. Lilley
My Department has been developing a comprehensive strategy to combat fraud, moving from reliance primarily on detection to a much greater reliance on prevention and deterrence. It is devoting increasing resources to achieving this end.

§ Mr. Lidington
Does my right hon. Friend agree that, with social security expenditure now by far the largest component of all Government expenditure, it is doubly important to maintain public confidence in the system by ensuring that every possible measure is taken to reduce and to prevent fraud? Will my right hon. Friend use the opportunities presented by new information technology to carry forward the struggle to prevent and deter fraud?

§ Mr. Lilley
I can assent to both my hon. Friend's propositions. Fraud is a matter that gives rise to great public concern, and it is right that we should do all in our power to combat it. That undoubtedly means taking advantage of modern information technology and data-matching processes, which is part of my strategy.

§ Mr. Frank Field
Will the Secretary of State confirm that about 10 million additional national insurance numbers that are not attached to individuals are floating around the system and that, last year, 30 million national insurance accounts neither had contributions paid to them nor credits made to them? Does he accept that, with a social security budget of £90 billion, it would be inconceivable, in view of what we know about City fraud and financial fraud, for there not to be the most sophisticated gangs operating against the social security budget? What action does the Secretary of State intend to take to protect that part of the budget, and how does he answer the charge that, in this most important of areas, he is soft on fraud and soft on causes?

§ Mr. Lilley
The hon. Gentleman is probably the only person who thinks that I am soft on fraud. If I am honest, he is the only Labour Member who is not soft on fraud. None the less, he should not give the impression that national insurance numbers are "floating around", as he put it, because of fraud. There are national insurance numbers that no longer have people in this country attached to them simply because the people concerned are abroad. In other cases, there is a period of some months after death before probate is got through, so the number exists in the meantime. We want to tighten up on this issue so that we can make better use of national insurance numbers to combat fraud. The phenomenon to which the hon. Gentleman refers is not the result of fraud.