§ 9. Mr. MackinlayTo ask the Secretary of State for Social Security if he will make it his policy to conduct a 10 major survey of the incidence and extent of poverty currently prevailing in the United Kingdom; and if he will make a statement.
§ Mr. BurtInformation on the patterns of household disposable income are already provided in the "Households Below Average Income" publication of the Government Statistical Service, and more will be available from the first full year of the family resource survey. It is expected to be of considerable benefit to the Department in aiding the formulation and evaluation of social security policy.
§ Mr. MackinlayWhat is the Government's definitive response to the findings of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and the Panorama programme "Dead Poor", which showed that the gap between those with health and wealth and those experiencing poverty is getting wider? Do the Government accept those findings? If not, why does the Minister think that they are flawed? If the Government do not accept the findings, will the Minister set up an inquiry using further survey methods to ascertain the full extent of poverty?
§ Mr. BurtThe hon. Gentleman knows well that poverty statistics are notoriously difficult to analyse. He will also know that whatever statistics he cares to choose will show that the access of the lowest 10 per cent., as regards income, to what used to be called luxury goods—cars, telephones, videos and so on—has risen inexorably over time.
Widening income inequality has tended to come from changes in the labour market, particularly the increase in two-earner couples, and changes in the rates given for different occupations over a period. The solution to the one is physically to restrain two-earner couples—I suspect that that is not the intent of the hon. Gentleman, nor of his part—and to the other is to deal with different wages by a prices and incomes policy. If that is the policy of the hon. Gentleman, he should tell people.
§ Mr. JenkinDoes my hon. Friend agree that other measures of standards of living show that the poorest 10 per cent. have vastly improved access to things which improve the quality of their lives, such as telephones, freezers and washing machines? Does he also agree that a party which advocates a national minimum wage cannot be serious about reducing poverty, because a national minimum wage would enormously increase unemployment and poverty?
§ Mr. BurtMy hon. Friend makes a point about the minimum wage that was made by the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott) before the last general election. It had its impact on jobs. My hon. Friend also points out that this is a genuinely complex matter. The best way in which poverty can be attacked is by bringing about improvements through creating jobs. That is why the Conservative Government have introduced policies that have helped unemployment to fall by some 500,000 in the past two years. If those policies were followed by some socialist economies on the continent, those economies might prove a little more successful than they currently are.