London Underground (Access) (Hansard, 6 February 1995)

§ 9. Mr. Gerrard
To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what plans he has to improve access for disabled people into London Underground stations.

§ Mr. Norris
For a number of years it has been London Underground's policy to improve access to stations as they come up for redevelopment. All new lines and extensions will be fully accessible. In October 1993, London Underground announced the dropping of all restrictions on wheelchair users on the system.

§ Mr. Gerrard
Does the Minister accept that when people with mobility difficulties are asked to give 24 hours' notice of their travelling on public transport and about only 30 underground stations are wheelchair accessible, we are a long way short of a much-needed comprehensive programme? In his earlier answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Derbyshire, North-East (Mr. Barnes), the Minister referred to the financial difficulties in meeting that programme. Under his plans, how many years will pass before the majority of underground stations are accessible to people with mobility difficulties?

§ Mr. Norris
The hon. Gentleman raises a very important subject. Perhaps he might ask shadow transport spokesmen whether they are prepared to commit themselves to a capital programme to permit disabled people to access the public transport system. I fear that they will tell him that the problem is that a great deal of the underground system was built in Victorian times when, as I said earlier, the needs of disabled people were simply not taken into account. In many instances, remedial work will therefore be horrendously expensive. One estimate puts the cost of making London Underground wheelchair accessible at not less than £7 billion. No one could be more understanding and concerned about the needs of disabled people than me, but I think that a little realism would not go amiss.

§ Mr. John Marshall
Will my hon. Friend confirm that London commuters have seen real progress made in this area, with taxis and other parts of the transport system having been made wheelchair accessible? Does he agree 10 that it is hypocritical of Opposition Members to say that they oppose tax increases, yet say that we should spend £7 billion?

§ Mr. Norris
My hon. Friend is quite right. I hope that the Opposition will produce a costed programme—if that is what they are offering—to show the public expenditure implications of a commitment to wheelchair accessibility on London Underground within a few years. That cost will be horrendous; my hon. Friend is exactly right.

§ Mr. Tom Clarke
Does the Minister accept that his replies this afternoon have been complacent and mean-minded in the extreme? How can he justify introducing legislation that allows disabled people access to stations and bus terminuses, but not to the vehicles themselves? Are those people supposed to stand on platforms and wave goodbye to trains and buses
? In the light of the figures that the Minister presented to the House, how can he justify the fact that the recent refurbishment of the Angel station has made it even more difficult for disabled passengers to access? Does he accept that he has a responsibility not only to almost 1 million disabled potential passengers in London who cannot access public transport but to ensure public access to public transport in the capital?

§ Mr. Norris
I fear that the hon. Gentleman's high-minded and immensely sincere words must be backed by finance. He has to be realistic. London Underground's management has taken considerable steps in that regard and I know that, in his usual fair way, he will acknowledge that.
All new transport developments and new transport systems offer full access to disabled people. The hon. Gentleman knows as well as I do that in London we operate a largely Victorian-built system with deep tunnels, which makes it very difficult to introduce disabled access. If he can persuade his right hon. and hon. Friends to cost the programme, I would like to see that commitment. I believe that, when the chips are down, the hon. Gentleman's high words will cut no ice with the hon. Member for Dunfermline, East (Mr. Brown).