Social Affairs Council (Hansard, 4 April 1995)

§ 5. Mr. Frank Cook
To ask the Secretary of State for Employment when the next Social Affairs Council meeting is to be held; and what items are to be discussed. [16007]

§ Mr. Portillo
The next Social Affairs Council will be held on 29 June. No agenda has yet been published.

§ Mr. Cook
The House will have read in the past fortnight of the expressed determination of the German Government to stop the Gastarbeiter from being engaged in conditions or at rates of pay which would undermine the conditions of the indigenous worker. The Secretary of State may be pleased to know that that is indeed welcome news to those constituents of mine who undertake the "Auf Wiedersehen Pet" route and go to work in Germany. Will the Secretary of State tell the House why my constituents may expect the German Minister to defend their standards when he will not?

§ Mr. Portillo
If the German Minister's policy of the posted workers directive were carried through, it would prevent the hon. Gentleman's constituents from going anywhere in Europe to find work at the rates of pay that employers would like to offer. I believe in a single European market. I believe in people being able to offer 1514 their labour freely in any place in that European market. I think that perhaps the hon. Gentleman does not believe that. If he does not, it would be to the disadvantage of his constituents who at present have the freedom to go to Germany and also of his constituents who will be employed when Samsung brings 3,000 jobs to his constituency.

§ Mr. John Marshall
Would my right hon. Friend like to suggest to the German presidency that the subject of job creation should be on the agenda, so that he may point out that many more jobs are being created in this country than in other European countries?

§ Mr. Portillo
My hon. Friend is extremely well experienced in these matters and he will not be surprised to hear that when European Employment Ministers meet, although supposedly unemployment is meant to be top of their agenda, they spend much of their time discussing directives which would make it more difficult for people to get jobs in Europe and more difficult to move from country to country. The question of unemployment is usually relegated to a brief discussion towards the end of the agenda.

§ Mr. Barron
The Ministers at the Social Affairs Council agree with a national minimum wage. Does the Secretary of State accept that 1 million people who are being paid under £2.50 an hour in the British economy may think that it is a good idea to have a national minimum wage in this country? Why do the Government take every opportunity, including abolishing wages councils, to drive down the hourly rate to level people down? Surely British workers deserve better than this Government who believe in low pay?

§ Mr. Portillo
The hon. Gentleman and his party do not believe in anything, or if they do, they are not prepared to tell the public what it is. If the hon. Gentleman is so keen on having a minimum wage, I offer him the opportunity to stand up again and tell us what that minimum wage should be. Why will he not do that? I believe in a high-wage economy based on high levels of education and high levels of skill. The hon. Gentleman believes in promising people something which he is not prepared to deliver. He believes in trying to mislead people. I believe in trying to raise people's standards by education and skills. The people of this country, when it comes to the election, will not put up with the deception which is being attempted by the hon. Gentlemen.