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§ Mr. Harry Barnes (Derbyshire, North-East)The Opsahl report on Northern Ireland, published in June 1993, was based on the views of many ordinary citizens of Northern Ireland rather than on those of politicians. The range of views expressed to the commission was as wide as those of politicians and perhaps more complicated because they reflected many different nuances and attitudes, as might be expected when speaking to the general public.
A charitable body established with the backing of charitable-trusts and foundations, Initiative 92's Citizens Inquiry, obtained 3,000 responses in the form of 545 written and taped submissions. Many of them were examined in meetings and by seven experts from both parts of Ireland, from Britain and from the United States of America under the chairmanship of the leading Norwegian human rights lawyer, Professor Torkel Opsahl. Unfortunately, he died shortly after the report's publication, but I was fortunate enough to meet him for its launch in Britain at a meeting that I hosted in the House on 10 June 1993.
The report initially received a great deal of attention in the island of Ireland. It was fully discussed in the Irish Parliament and was outlined and discussed at a meeting in Cork of the British-Irish parliamentary body, which took the report seriously enough to propose that it would be taken into consideration by future committees concerned with education, social provision, pensions and other matters, and that attempts should be made to adopt its proposals. It was hastily rejected, however, by Northern Ireland politicians, partly because it suggested that a number of them should attend political educational institutions and downgraded them by giving priority to the views of ordinary citizens.
The Opsahl report was also discussed by the European Parliament, but little attention has been paid to it in Britain. In the other place, a debate was initiated on 3 March 1994 by Lord Holme of Cheltenham, but the only references to it in this House were in a speech made by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on 22 October 1993, when he devoted three minutes to the report, and in my three early-day motions, in written questions, in a supplementary question and in an oral question, and on other occasions when I have made passing reference to the report. The House has not given the report the consideration that is due to it. We can belatedly make amends for that today.
The report has not been superseded by dramatic events in Northern Ireland in the past year, such as the revelation of the Hume-Adams talks and the publication of the joint declaration, which is of tremendous importance but which differs from the nature of the report. The joint declaration seeks relatively speedy means of reaching peace and reconciliation in Northern Ireland on key areas such as terrorism and constitutional solutions. The Opsahl report is broader and in some ways more plodding, although it may be more practical and selective of the issues that it examines. It deals with economic, social, religious, cultural, and education issues, which are given as much weight as the political, constitutional, terrorism and security concerns. The House normally deals with those concerns, but it gives too little attention to the economic and social agenda.
470 The report is very much in favour of the development of cross-border co-operation on the economic agenda. We are in the era of the Single European Act, disappearing trade barriers throughout Europe and advancing trade and commerce between nations and regions. That needs to be encouraged in the island of Ireland. The report recognises, however, that for that to take place we need a new Northern Ireland Government, acceptable to the communities involved, to work with the Irish Government. It is a matter not of sharing Executive power but of discussion and negotiation between two sides and two interests. The policies of the IRA lead to borders being placed between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which considerably disrupt trade. For instance, the IRA attacks trains travelling between Belfast and. Dublin to push goods back on to the roads, where protection rackets can more readily and easily operate.
The report also suggests regional development plans with economic and social goals, as proposed by the Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce and Industry and by the Northern Ireland Voluntary Trust. The argument is that we should move beyond just considering the free market and that we should introduce development, planning and regulation, which runs counter to the deregulation legislation introduced by the Government. The arguments about the operation of economic and social matters in Britain differ from those in Northern Ireland because an incentive is required to draw communities together.
On the social agenda, the report states that there should be a gradual policy of integration over wide areas. It stresses the need for integrated education. A small and admirable integrated education programme exists in Northern Ireland, but the report recognises that it should be extended much further. The compilers of the report were impressed by the sixth forms in Northern Ireland, whether basically Catholic, basically Protestant or integrated. They felt that pupils wished to express their desires and suggested that they be allowed to find out much more about the different communities, their histories and traditions. There is a programme of education for mutual understanding in schools, which the report stresses should have more funding.
The report stresses the point that there is a problem with the Catholic hierarchy in terms of the development of integrated education. I have always believed that integrated education should start with teacher training, but at present integrated teacher training is limited to university provision. The fact that one of the separate teacher-training colleges is Catholic means that the other, in practice, caters for Protestants. We cannot envisage more integrated education if the teachers themselves are not integrated and I often press the Government about what can be done to break down the barriers to integration.
The report also stressed the need for pilot integrated housing schemes. The Northern Ireland Housing Executive has done much valuable work, but unfortunately certain free market policies have recently been imposed on it. It tends to develop different housing schemes in different areas according to the representations made to it, which causes problems, but pilot schemes with subsidised rents would attract people. Community work is also highlighted and the report suggests that the type of cross-community trust which exists in Derry should be extended.
It is also recommended that the integration of men and women in the political process should be pursued. Women 471 are very poorly represented in Northern Ireland politics, in the parties in general and on public bodies. Some of the entrenched sectarian attitudes, which are strong among the men, may rub off less strongly on women because of the nature of their activities, the problems that they face and the ease with which they recognise the common problems faced by, for example, unemployed families, whether they be Protestant or Catholic.
The report also stresses the need for cultural integration. I have already mentioned the education programme for mutual understanding, which states that there appears to be an interest among Protestants—especially schoolchildren —in understanding their Irishness, but without the traditional nationalist propaganda. It believes that an understanding of the cultural development of Northern Ireland is important. Comments on the Opsahl report tend to concentrate on its political and constitutional agenda, but I have sought to stress the economic and social aspects because they deserve more attention than they receive.
On constitutional matters, the report said that if the talks then taking place failed a commission should be set up in consultation with the Irish Government to speak directly to the people—in other words, that an "official Opsahl" should remain in existence. I know that that idea has been dismissed, on the grounds that the talks will not fail and that there is another stage to come, but we should keep it on the agenda all the time because the Opsahl commission found areas in which no movement could be made, due to entrenched positions. There were arguments about ways of overcoming that problem through continuing work, which could then be picked up officially.
The commission argued for the legal recognition of nationalism, so that in a new Northern Ireland Government parity of esteem would be recognised. For some of us there is a problem with that idea, because it rather suggests the sort of veto that might be operated by nationalist or unionist politicians that runs against the integrationist principles for which the report argues elsewhere. However, in order to get government off the ground in Northern Ireland something of that sort may be needed as a starter, and if the principles of integration were running elsewhere there would begin to be a principle of integration in the political sphere. The report also suggested that it was not good enough to get a mere arithmetical majority agreement on the future constitutional position. A consensus was needed—a consensus broad enough to be reflected in both communities. The report says that majority support for the advances would be needed in both communities.
The commission was criticised for arguing for consultation with Sinn Fein—unfairly, because such consultation was already taking place at the time. We have heard a lot about that, and whatever might be said about the initial discussions, the Government have adopted the correct approach since then, both in the declaration and in their clarification. The questions that have been asked back, such as when the violence will end, really put Sinn Fein on the spot. The Government's present position is within the spirit of the Opsahl report.
There is also stress on the need for a Bill of Rights, for which there is wide support in many areas. John Bruton, the leader of Fine Gael, suggests that the talks could initially be about a Bill of Rights as a subject on which people may be able to make a start.
The most impressive aspect of the Opsahl report is not so much its recommendations as the fact that it is a process and gives the reader a feel not just for the difficulties and 472 problems of the Province, but also for the hopes. The problems can be expressed in the words of a 15-year-old Catholic schoolgirl, who said:
Like the thin white ribbon that the police use to seal an area, we wrap ourselves in our territories, where we know we are safe".Perhaps the Opsahl process can help to make life feel safe and good for both Catholic and Protestant schoolchildren outside the territories marked by white ribbons. The white ribbons may even no longer be there to form barriers in people's minds between two areas.I hope that the British Government will start to take the report seriously—more seriously than has been suggested by the off-the-cuff and sometimes rather glib remarks that they have made so far.
§ The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr. Michael Ancram)I am grateful, as is the House, to the hon. Member for Derbyshire, North-East (Mr. Barnes) for providing an opportunity for the House to debate Northern Ireland today. But for the Whitsun recess, we should have had Northern Ireland questions today, so the debate provides a useful opportunity to ensure that Northern Ireland remains at the head of the parliamentary agenda, as it does at the head of the Government's agenda.
Sadly, day-to-day events tend to keep Northern Ireland in the spotlight. In recent days there have been further savage attacks and killings by both loyalist and republican terrorists. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman and the rest of the House remain united in our utter rejection of those cowardly and futile crimes, and in our determination to find an answer to the tragic problems that for too long have caused suffering and despair in that beautiful land.
The hon. Member for Derbyshire, North-East is well known in the House for his caring concern for Northern Ireland. Specifically, he has shown a close interest in the Opsahl report ever since it was published last summer and the House will be grateful for his commentary on the report today. It was a wide-ranging report, sometimes far more wide ranging than it is given credit for publicly. It was certainly not just political and constitutional. I listened with interest to what the hon. Gentleman said, especially about education which, as he knows, is one of my responsibilities within the Northern Ireland Office.
The hon. Gentleman knows of the Government's current support for the principle of integrated education where there is a parental demand for such education, and for the principle of the cross-curricular themes of education for mutual understanding and cultural heritage within both the controlled and maintained sectors. There is little difference between us on the need to ensure that within the education system there is a permanent cross-current which brings the communities together.
My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State is already on record as responding to the report on behalf of the Government. In reply to a written question tabled by the hon. Gentleman last June, my right hon. and learned Friend said that the report
provides a valuable record of the commission's work, which clearly did much to stimulate the submission of views from a wide range of individuals and organisations."—[Official Report, 28 June 1993; Vol. 227, c. 339.]He also observed that a number of the recommendations were clearly controversial and had provoked dissenting comment. He said that in his view the value of the report lay principally in enlivening and developing informed public debate. He went on to recognise that the report 473 offered an important source of ideas. Today's debate is an indication that the principles outlined in the Opsahl report are, indeed, continuing to cause and enliven debate.My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State also mentioned the report in more detail in an Adjournment debate on 22 October, to which the hon. Gentleman has referred. The report was also the subject of a full debate in another place on 3 March. On that occasion, Baroness Denton responded in some detail to many of the main points in the report and I shall not go over all that ground again today. As I have said, the report covers a wide range of areas and is addressed to a number of groups, not just to the Government. As the hon. Gentleman mentioned, the report received a cool reception from the Northern Ireland parties generally. Nothing would be gained today by going over the recommendations again in great detail when, as I have said, our position is already on the record.
On the political front, however, the report suggests ways in which to find a political settlement in Northern Ireland. The great value of today's debate is the way in which it highlights, once again, the need to continue to pursue the goal of an agreed, wide-ranging political accommodation. In that regard, the Government certainly share the political objectives of the report, although we differ on the means by which to achieve them. The report suggests that if the talks fail—that is an important phrase —the Government, in consultation with the Irish Government, should establish a commission to study the situation and to make recommendations for further consultation with the political parties and, if necessary, directly with the people of Northern Ireland. The report identifies what it calls seven realities which it believes must be accepted before an accommodation can be reached. The report also talks in terms of equal sharing of power by both main parts of the community and proposes at the same time giving legal recognition to Irish nationalism.
As I have said, I do not want to get involved in too much of the detail today, but I must say at this stage that I reject totally the notion that the talks have failed—the triggering device within the report. As the House is aware, dialogue is continuing both with most of the Northern Ireland parties and with the Irish Government. The House will also wish to bear in mind the fact that events have moved on considerably since the report was published last June, despite—I say this with all respect—the hon. Gentleman's assertion that they have not done so to any great extent.
The main change has been the historic joint declaration by the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach last December, which established a new level of understanding between the British and Irish Governments about how Northern Ireland's future should be determined. In particular, it offered a clear opportunity to those who support violence to turn away from it and to join the political process. The key to that was that violence must be ended, permanently and for good. It is testimony to the way in which the declaration sets out a balanced set of principles, founded on the notions of agreement, consent and the rejection of violence, that it has been warmly welcomed nationally and internationally, including by the Opposition parties and by the hon. Gentleman in particular.
The Opsahl report suggests that arrangements for government within Northern Ireland should be based on 474 the principle that each community has an equal voice in making and executing the laws or a veto on their execution, and equal shares in administrative authority. The Government come to the issues from a different angle. We do not propose to impose a solution. We do not have a blueprint for a settlement. To quote the joint declaration, the Government's
primary interest is to see peace, stability and reconciliation established by agreement among all the people who inhabit the island".Further, the declaration makes it clear thatThe role of the British Government will be to encourage, facilitate and enable the achievement of such agreement over a period through a process of dialogue and co-operation based on full respect for the rights and identities of both traditions in Ireland".To put it another way, Britain's purpose in Northern Ireland is to ensure democratic debate and free democratic choice. The Government fully accept the need to restore locally accountable democracy in Northern Ireland. However, as the Opsahl report recognises, for any new structures to be both fair and workable, they must command wide support and allegiance in Northern Ireland itself. That means that any accommodation must address those arrangements in the context of wider relationships.We believe that the best forum for reaching such an accommodation lies in the talks process, which is continuing. For the past eight months, I have been in private bilateral discussion with three of the four main constitutional parties in Northern Ireland, exploring areas of common ground across all the relevant relationships —in Northern Ireland, among the people of the island of Ireland and between the two Governments. We have built on the work carried out in the 1991 and 1992 talks, and in recent weeks we have submitted to the parties a paper which floated ideas relevant to those relationships.
§ Mr. BarnesThe additional point about the Opsahl report is that there can be a nibbling away at many of the areas that help to nurture the extremists in Northern Ireland. The avenues of integration that are talked about, the tackling of problems of unemployment and deprivation, take the ground from under extremists in Northern Ireland when they are arguing their case against the alternative community and the alternative political settlement. We should not look only for a dramatic solution, although one hopes that that will happen. I support entirely the joint declaration and everything associated with it, but other action may be taken in economic and social areas which would help to improve the situation.
§ Mr. AncramI do not dissent at all from what the hon. Gentleman says. We have always regarded the political process as being one of the policy priorities in Northern Ireland. Equally, security is another and the third is economic advancement and the type of integration and opportunity to which the hon. Gentleman refers.
In the last few minutes available, I shall concentrate on the political side. As I have said, we have been building on the talks which took place and we shall continue to do so. There will be further exchanges with the main constitutional parties in Northern Ireland, and we hope that in the end we shall be able to persuade them to return to a more formal talks process. In parallel with my discussions with the parties, intensive consultations with the Irish Government have been in progress to develop a joint framework to carry the talks process forward. A progress 475 report was made to the last intergovernmental conference on 25 April and work is continuing. Our intention is to bring together those two areas of activity and to return to multilateral talks involving the two Governments and the main constitutional political parties at the appropriate point. Our objective is to facilitate a comprehensive political settlement covering all the main relationships, as set out in the statement of 26 March 1991.
The Opsahl report also recommended that the Government should open informal channels of communication with Sinn Fein to test that party's commitment to the constitutional process. As the hon. Member for Derbyshire, North-East made clear, the joint declaration delivered a direct challenge to Sinn Fein as to whether it carried on supporting the odious and futile campaign of violence or adopted the way of constitutional politics. The ball is now firmly in its court and we await its answer. It has prevaricated long enough. It has made an issue of so-called clarification. As the hon. Gentleman suggested, last week we issued a statement commenting on its questions. We said in that statement:
The vast majority of people in Ireland, North and South and of both traditions, demand an end to violence now. Their wishes could not be clearer.That is the wish that brings the hon. Gentleman and me together today in what we are saying. It is certainly the wish of the people of Northern Ireland. It was also the wish expressed in the Opsahl report.