Business of the House (Hansard, 19 May 1994)

§ Mr. Harry Barnes (Derbyshire, North-East)
I have some questions about the motion and some brief comments on it. Next Monday, we shall be discussing the Deregulation and Contracting Out Bill, which is liable to take considerable time as there is great concern among Opposition Members about its implications. We also have to consider two orders. Under the motion, we shall have an hour and a half on the draft Railways Pension Scheme Order 1994. That order is a matter of great concern, but it is liable to be dealt with in the early hours.
I am a former railway clerk and my pension may be one of those being discussed, although it has long since disappeared into other provisions. I know that there is a great deal of interest and concern in the House about what is happening to railway pensions. There is great concern among of a number of my constituents, many of whom worked in railway workshops and other places.
Much more serious than that is the business for Tuesday, which includes provision for a three-hour Third Reading on the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Bill. If that is a three-hour debate, it is an advance, to some extent, on time given recently for such debates in the House. The Coal Industry Bill had a very short Third Reading debate. Indeed, on some other quite important matters, we have not bothered about Third Readings at all and have moved straight from Report to a final decision. We should have separate and proper debates in the House on Third Reading, so that, after Report, there could be a reprinting of the Bill at that stage, especially if there have been serious alterations on Report. We would then be in a position to have a fully fledged debate on Third Reading.
What is the position on local government for England and Wales? At least for Scotland, we are able to discuss such matters, but in England and Wales we are faced with a series of orders, which, like other orders, are unamendable and are on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. Indeed, we do not know when the tabling of such orders will end.
1018 Even more seriously, Tuesday's business allows three hours for the draft Northern Ireland (Emergency and Prevention of Terrorism Provisions) (Continuance) Order 1994. I know that that is an annual provision and that those three hours will allow the comments that have always been made to be made again, but it covers a developing situation. I do not know what has developed today, but an answer to the points put forward by Sinn Fein and the IRA through Sinn Fein that required clarification of the Downing street declaration has been mentioned today. Such answers seem to be relevant to the approach that hon. Members will have to the order.
We may have an opportunity, subject to the decisions of the Chair, to discuss subjects slightly wider than those contained in the order, although the order itself is wide enough to facilitate quite full discussion about such matters. I am not quite sure what has occurred over the Government's intention to provide an answer to Sinn Fein. A question of mine appears on tomorrow's Order Paper and that should be an opportunity, if no other answer is given, for one to be provided.
Wednesday's business moves to the spring Adjournment motion and, according to the motion before us, a debate on the draft Council Tax Limitation (Sheffield City Council) (Maximum Amount) Order 1994. Six hon. Members represent Sheffield. Two are former leaders of the council and one is a former leader of the opposition on the council. Given that that order is liable to relate to areas surrounding Sheffield, such as north-east Derbyshire, which I represent, although it looks easy to deal with, it may require the provision of more time.
With regard to the final day before the recess, Thursday 26 May, would the Leader of the House explain the situation liable to occur at 11 o'clock, when the Speaker may interrupt the proceedings—

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Geoffrey Lofthouse)
Order. The hon. Gentleman's comments are straying to the next motion.

§ Mr. Barnes
Sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I inadvertently strayed on to motion No. 5. As I wish to raise some points on that motion, it might be appropriate for me to try to catch your eye then.

§ The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. Tony Newton)
The hon. Gentleman has legitimately raised a number of questions about the motion and I shall respond. However, perhaps I ought to preface my brief remarks by saying that, of course, the motions have been tabled following discussion—obviously I do not want to enter into those in any detail as it would be improper to do so—through the usual channels. I do not know whether this will influence the hon. Gentleman, but the motions reflect some of the knock-on effects, if I may put it like that, of our efforts, acknowledged by his Chief Whip and by the shadow Leader of the House, to be as helpful as possible in accommodating the wishes of the Opposition, which included—

§ Mr. Barnes
rose—

§ Mr. Newton
May I finish the sentence as it has specific relevance to the railway motions? Those orders were originally announced on Monday or Tuesday for debate 1019 today. At the request of the official Opposition, they were moved from today to Monday, on the understanding that we would expect to have them governed by a motion of the sort before us.

§ Mr. Barnes
I recognise that there has been a careful response to the wishes of the Opposition, which has taken matters into account, that we have a different timetable for this week from that which would otherwise have taken place. It is just that I am not part of the usual channels and the avenue through which I may air points, without raising great objections to the channels being used, is on the Floor of the House.

§ Mr. Newton
I totally understand that and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not have taken my remarks amiss. I was delicately trying to imply two things. First, that the basic background to the motion is the efforts that the Government have made this week to be helpful to the Opposition. Secondly, it is not easy for me to go much further than that without entering into details about discussions through the usual channels, which would not be either proper or helpful.
In many ways, the same applies to the other parts of the motion, although the hon. Gentleman did make a specific point on the railway order. The only other comment that I can sensibly make is in relation to the Northern Ireland business on Tuesday. Of course, it is not for me to say what would or would not be in order on such an occasion, as I said to Madam Speaker when a similar question was asked during business questions this afternoon. However, it certainly seems that there would be possibilities for the hon. Gentleman to raise points about his concerns on that occasion, subject to the guidance of the Chair. However, I can tell him that, in response to his implicit question—I know that his question will be answered tomorrow—I believe that the Government's response to the Sinn Fein questions was published at 6 o'clock, when copies were placed in the Library of the House and made available to hon. Members through the Vote Office.