HC Deb 28 March 1994 vol 240 cc617-8
2. Mr. Bates

To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security what is the latest estimate of the value of the average pensioner's income from savings and occupational pensions; and what were the comparable figures in 1979.

Mr. Lilley

In 1990–91—the latest year for which information is available—the estimated average value of pensioners' income from savings and occupational pensions was £63.20, which is an increase of more than 125 per cent. in real terms on the comparable figure of £27.80 in 1979.

Mr. Bates

But is not it also the case that pensioner living standards and incomes are up on the 1979 figures and that the only figures that are going down are the number of pensioner couples in the lowest income band and the amount of press coverage that such excellent news receives?

Mr. Lilley

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I have found that the most telling evidence of good news is the lack of reporting that it receives in the press. The fact that the income standards of pensioners are rising so strongly is extremely good news, and they are set to continue rising as more pensioners have occupational and private pensions.

Mr. Corbyn

Does the Secretary of State accept that the figures that he gave are utter nonsense? The real increase in the level of the state old-age pension since 1979 is 3.6 per cent., as he has admitted. Will he stop bandying about figures that include investment income for a very small number of elderly people and instead consider the real levels of poverty among the elderly, the number of old people who die from hypothermia and the number of single women pensioners over the age of 75 who have no access to occupational pensions, savings or anything else and are living in poverty? Will the right hon. Gentleman restore the link with earnings, which the Conservative Government broke in 1980, and give people a decent pension?

Mr. Lilley

Apart from state provision, occupational pensions are the biggest single factor. It is true that in 1979—the year to which the hon. Member harks back—only 43 per cent. of retired people had occupational pensions. In the latest year for which we have figures, 61 per cent. of retired people had such pensions; among the newly retired the figure is 70 per cent., which is excellent news. I simply remind the hon. Gentleman that, in every year since 1979, pensioners' incomes have increased on average by more than they did in all five years under Labour.

Dr. Spink

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that 10.7 million employees are members of occupational schemes? Will he also confirm that the Government will continue to provide an environment in which such schemes can flourish?

Mr. Lilley

I can certainly confirm that for my hon. Friend; he is absolutely right. More than 10 million people in work are building up occupational pensions—apart from those retired people who are enjoying them—and 5 million additional people are building up private pensions for the future. That is good news, as is the additional provision that the Government have made for the least well-off—£1 billion a year since 1988.