Television Licences (Hansard, 7 March 1994)

§ 5. Mr. Luff
To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage if he will make a statement about the operation of the concessionary television licence system.

§ Mr. Sproat
Responsibility for the administration of the television licensing system, including the concessionary licence system, rests with the BBC.

§ Mr. Luff
Notwithstanding that reply, I am sure that my hon. Friend will understand my gratitude to him for the time that I spent with him last week discussing the operation of the scheme at Severn house in Worcester. Having reflected on the facts that I shared with him at that meeting, does he agree that the situation facing the residents of Severn house is grossly unfair?

§ Mr. Sproat
It is certainly the case that, with some 50 flats at Severn house, of which one is in private sector 5 ownership, the other residents, apart from those with previous opportunities for having concessionary fees, are prevented from having such fees. I hope that something can be done. I will certainly do all that I can to ensure that natural justice prevails.

§ Mr. Winnick
How can it possibly be justified that, arising from Government legislation, pensioners who were in such accommodation before May 1988 get a concessionary licence fee, and rightly so, but if they moved in after May 1988 they must pay the full fee? Surely, that is unjust. It causes antagonism between residents and neighbours and is entirely due to the legislation that the Government introduced at the time. Had my Bill become law, there would have been no television licence fees for pensioners.

§ Mr. Sproat
The hon. Gentleman puts his finger on what I have sought to acknowledge to my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr. Luff) is a difficult situation. Wherever one makes a cut-off point, someone is always just below or just above it, and suffers. What I am trying to do, however, is to ensure that, notwithstanding the fact that the BBC will have to administer the system, natural justice prevails in the case of Severn house.

§ Mr. Harry Greenway
Will my hon. Friend put it forcefully to the BBC that where a warden is taken away from warden-controlled accommodation, but continues that function part time, and the concessionary licence fee is withdrawn as a result, that is a real injustice for those residents? Will he do something about that matter?

§ Mr. Sproat
I undertake to look closely at the hypothetical, or practical, case that my hon. Friend quoted.

§ Ms Mowlam
If the Minister is undertaking to look at that case, why not include, as part of his review of the BBC's royal charter which is under way, the whole question of television licences? It is a national problem which is unjust, unequal and unacceptable. If he is so keen to get justice, why not include the licence fee in the review and let us see some action?

§ Mr. Sproat
We are certainly happy to consider all relevant matters in the review. If all pensioners were to be given concessionary licences, however, that would cost the BBC some £500 million a year. If the cost of the concession were covered by the normal licence paid by the rest of society, that licence would cost £120 a year. The hon. Lady will see the problems involved, but we are happy to consider all the issues, so that we come up with the fairest possible solution.

§ Mr. Ian Bruce
If one is looking for a fair system, should one not consider the whole arrangement whereby the BBC is able to charge everyone in the country for a licence whether or not people watch the BBC?

§ Mr. Sproat
Those are all matters which will come up under the review.