HC Deb 04 July 1994 vol 246 cc4-5
6. Mr. Lidington

To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security when he will announce the details of his proposed habitual residence test.

Mr. Lilley

I shall shortly lay regulations to prevent benefit tourism by introducing a residence test for people who claim income support, housing benefit and council tax benefit. The report from the Social Security Advisory Committee on the proposals, together with the Government's response, will be published at the same time.

Mr. Lidington

Does my right hon. Friend agree that decent folk who pay their taxes to help the needy find it outrageous that foreigners can still come over here and rip off our social security system? Will he confirm that the proposals that the Government intend to implement would bring us into line with the practice of most other European countries?

Mr. Lilley

I can, indeed, confirm that, as my hon. Friend would expect, the proposal is very communautaire. It will bring us into line with our European colleagues. I have always thought that they were more sensible in requiring a residence test to be met before handing out benefits and I am happy to follow their example. Certainly, they think that we are strange for doing what we do. I have an interesting article here from Le Nouvel Observateur, which I have no doubt is widely read, expressing amazement that young continentals can come here and pick up benefit with the ease with which they do it at present.

Mr. Rooney

Does the Secretary of State accept that the biggest element of the fraud of so-called benefit tourism is private landlords' exploitation of lax housing laws in Britain that allow hundreds of pounds a week of housing benefit to be paid to private landlords?

Mr. Lilley

That is certainly an issue which we have addressed. As the hon. Gentleman will know, we have changed the system of reimbursing local authorities, which are responsible for handing out benefit, so that they are no longer penalised but share in the savings that are made when abuses and frauds are discovered in the housing benefit system. Such abuses can result from collusion between landlords and tenants of the kind that the hon. Gentleman describes. We are determined to stop that.

Mr. John Marshall

Would my right hon. Friend care to give a draft of his proposals to the Lord Chancellor so that benefit tourism in relation to the legal aid system can also be brought to an end?

Mr. Lilley

I shall certainly make sure that my hon. Friend's remarks are drawn to the attention of the Lord Chancellor, who I know follows these debates with great assiduity.

Mr. Dewar

In connection with the habitual residence test, can the Minister say a word or two about his decision as it will apply to citizens of the Irish Republic? It is known that he has had discussions with the Irish Minister for Social Services, Dr. Michael Woods. Did the right hon. Gentleman see the report in the Irish Post in the middle of last month to the effect that a definitive agreement had been reached which meant that the habitual residence test would not apply to citizens of the Irish Republic, those from the Channel islands and those from the Isle of Man? Can he confirm that that is so? I do not want to disturb his genuine reputation for being communautaire, but if it is, can he explain how that will be squared with his earlier statement that no differences would apply in relation to citizens of different countries within the European Union?

Mr. Lilley

I made it clear in answer to a question at an earlier Social Security Question Time—perhaps it was from the hon. Gentleman—that, in devising the regulations, I did not intend to disrupt the common travel area that exists between ourselves and other parts of the British Isles. Although I do not want to pre-empt my announcement, I hope that it will be possible to ensure that that is the case. The new phenomenon to which I am referring is that of people coming from the continent and taking advantage of regulations whose laxity they can scarcely believe.

Mr. Hawkins

Will my right hon. Friend consider that benefit tourism within the United Kingdom seriously disadvantages tourist resorts such as the one that I represent in Blackpool? The "come and claim your dole and housing benefit by the sea" phenomenon is a serious problem. Will my right hon. Friend consider that matter seriously before he decides the final format of his new announcement?

Mr. Lilley

I know that that issue causes concern in many seaside areas. The Government have endeavoured to deal with it and will keep a close eye on the problem. I have to disappoint my hon. Friend, however, as the regulations will not have a bearing on that problem.